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▲Does Reddit have an astroturfing problem? What the data suggests (petervijeh.com)
nomilk 13 hours ago [-]
The biggest problem I have with reddit is mods can slowly but systematically ban users who express unfavourable opinions, and over time, anyone casually browsing could mistakenly believe those views are unpopular, whereas in reality everyone with that view (everyone who spoke it, anyway) was banned.

To give a simple example, one video game franchise subreddit bans any negative discussion on the most recent title. Over 5-10 years, this shielded them from negative feedback. But the franchise has tanked because core users weren't listened to, and they ended up making something nobody wanted.

aurareturn 12 hours ago [-]
My biggest problem with Reddit is that trolls, memes, unintelligent posts have taken over the platform. Go to any semi-popular subreddit and most upvoted posts are just low effort memes. Posts that are long and well thought out don't win over memes and trolls. One of the reasons is that posting a few short words wins in upvotes because they get posted first while it takes much longer to write something thoughtful.

Reddit's system rewards these low effort posts for some reason. Over time, the platform becomes less and less trustworthy until it becomes something like Quora.

fishfasell 5 hours ago [-]
100%, r/science 15 years ago was very strict on keeping the conversation serious and no low effort posts or jokes. That subreddit is now littered with stupid comments, jokes, and you have to dig to find serious commentary. Reddit is dying and I love it.
cbg0 12 hours ago [-]
This has always been Reddit, aside from the niche subreddits.
aurareturn 12 hours ago [-]
I don't think so. I've been a Reddit user for 12+ years or so. Obviously when you make the platform easy to use for anyone, you also invite more casual users who just want to meme.

Reddit doesn't even make any attempt to control quality since user engagement numbers matter more than quality.

Reminds me of Quora which over optimized the site for engagement growth but eventually became completely useless for this reason.

cbg0 11 hours ago [-]
ieie3366 7 hours ago [-]
The big default subreddits were garbage 12 years ago, yes. But the rest of the site was not.

Now in 2026, even small niche subreddits are facebook / tiktok tier with low effort meme posts etc

bartread 4 hours ago [-]
> even small niche subreddits are facebook / tiktok tier with low effort meme posts

Completely agree.

There's a few niche subs I hang out in but, for me, the standout in terms of quality decline is r/DIYUK. The difference between that sub in 2019/2020 vs today is stark.

It's pretty common to scroll through several pages of repetitive one-line "jokes" before getting to anything remotely resembling a real answer.

Mods seem relatively inactive and there are only 4 of them anyway, which is nowhere near enough to keep on top of the volume of posts and comments nowadays. Really it needs either a lot more mods, or some form of LLM-backed automation, to weed out the low effort comments.

It's become a bit of a wasteland in terms of a lot of the regular contributors who used to give good, well thought out answers, have tapped out. I complained about this the other week and got downvoted and accussed of "showboating" which, honestly, I'm not even sure what the commenter who said that meant in the context of the discussion that we were having.

It's a real shame because there aren't really any good UK-focussed DIY-oriented discussion forums any more: all the others degraded and became toxic, which is where r/DIYUK won, because it resisted that trend for longer. No more, sadly. DIYnot always stood out as a place that was more about battling egos than providing meaningful help and advice and, although r/DIYUK hasn't gone in quite that direction, it is sadly headed down an equally useless and destructive path quality-wise.

aurareturn 10 hours ago [-]
The subreddits that I frequent have turned into a low effort meme fest.

No original OP posts are allowed, only URLs from the same old websites.

krageon 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, and the person you responded to posited that this is because they used to be niche. You claimed this was not the case, they provided some URLs that demonstrate semi popular subreddits have always been shit.

This post sounds like you are still disagreeing but nothing you've said points to another conclusion

tayo42 9 hours ago [-]
Your reddit experience is from mods and their rules and how they enforce it, not the site overall.
Good4boothee 5 hours ago [-]
As long as mods are human volunteers, can they ever keep up with scale of reddit? I regularly see submissions (on old.reddit's /r/all) that got to 10k+ upvotes and 200+ comments in hour or two before it was taken down for breaking given subredit rules.
rusticpenn 9 hours ago [-]
Yeah, look at AskHistorians. Its still pretty awesome.
keiferski 7 hours ago [-]
Not really, if you want to ask a question. 9/10 times it gets locked for breaking some obscure rule. If anyone answers, that answer is just deleted immediately as well.

This type of subreddit specifically is almost entirely useless since the advent of AI.

aurareturn 9 hours ago [-]
Site overall. Mobile app makes it easy to type a few words and hit send and hard to write well thought out posts.
jamesnorden 5 hours ago [-]
When every mod does the same it becomes the whole website.
someonebaggy 5 hours ago [-]
The site is the sum total of all that
lordnacho 7 hours ago [-]
This got me wondering whether you could train an automod to act like Dang.

Dang is more or less what keeps HN from becoming Reddit.

someonebaggy 5 hours ago [-]
People would find exploits in the automod. For example if a trivial keyword filter flags comments mentioning Palestine but not ones that mention Paluhstein, or "the country of Isn'treal"

This is called Algospeak and has infected a lot of people's everyday language. People say "unalive" instead of "kill" or "murder", because the internet has drilled into them that you have to use that word.

aurareturn 7 hours ago [-]
Don't think so unless all moderate actions are public.
jamesnorden 5 hours ago [-]
I don't know about that, political slop is sometimes manually unflagged here.
david-gpu 5 hours ago [-]
I've been on Reddit since late 2005. Before there were comments or subreddits.

My memory is fuzzy, but I remember it getting pretty shallow and memetic since before the Digg diaspora in 2010. And I think it was the popularity of image posts that did it; it was better before image links became popular.

However, Slashdot was already highly memetic since the late nineties, and it was not image-based, so I may be wrong about the effect of pictures.

shevy-java 9 hours ago [-]
> Reddit doesn't even make any attempt to control quality

But mods can say they censored you because of low quality contribution to reddit. :)

I do agree that the karma system does not work. I was able to farm 77k karma in two years, after I created a new account there (the old account I had before for +14 years was forced to change the password, so I created a new account - and used EXACTLY the same password, to prove a point to reddit that they are incredibly stupid. Sadly, reddit never understood the problem, even though it should be obvious that, if your passwords are lost yet users retain the same password after being forced by reddit to change it, something in reddit's insinuation simply does not add up here.)

harvey9 4 hours ago [-]
I once cracked a pretty good joke on a high-traffic thread and got about 30k upvotes for that one post. None of my serious posts in serious subreddits ever got close. I don't think Reddit karma is a useful indicator of anything.
pschastain 6 hours ago [-]
Once-upon-a-time reddit was the cool new alternative to digg
munksbeer 5 hours ago [-]
Visit /r/science

Their own rules forbid low effort posts:

  "No off-topic comments, memes, low-effort comments or jokes"
And yet every single topic is filled with exactly that any time I go to read anything. It can't be beyond their wit to get rid of that stuff.
trombuance 3 hours ago [-]
That's for the reason already mentioned above: Users who post substance and care about the issues will sooner or later write about something or express an opinion the moderators don't like and get banned. Over time the site is filled with lame jokes, single word comments and cliches.
whatisthiseven 12 hours ago [-]
People who build their identity around high scoring karma of memes take it seriously, and certainly don't want to hear "every subreddit devolves into memes if you let it"

The users themselves are killing it.

Jaygles 4 hours ago [-]
And there is often no respect for serious topics.

Tragedy? Low-effort memes

Someone in high esteem passes away unexpectedly? Low-effort memes

Slow descend into fascism? Low-effort memes

Teever 10 hours ago [-]
One of my biggest criticisms of social media in general is that the algorithm that determines how things are scored and ranked is intentionally obfuscated under the auspices of preventing 3rd parties from gaming it in such way that results in an outcome where it is impossible for users to determine if the platform owners are gaming it themselves.

I'm not aware of a social media site that does it but I think that I'd very strongly prefer a site where I could view a transparent log of who voted for what and when and what moderator took what action and when and why and how that all factors into how a comment / post / thread is ranked on the feed at any particular moment than one that hides all that stuff.

Reproducible builds but for social media.

Less 'pay no attention to that man behind the curtain' and more 'Exactly what it says on the tin"

The more that I interact with moderators on social media the more I've come to realize that as much as they're burnt out from answering the same questions from not-bad actors over and over as they are dealing with organic bad actors or automated content generators and that a great deal of those questions stem from the opaque nature of the algorithm.

All too often I find that moderators on social media are exasperated and burnt out not just from the endless janitorial work but also from users reaching out to them for understanding about the opaque nature of their actions and the outcomes that they have in the system.

So a lot of moderators gravitate towards a 'don't rock the boat' sort of mentality and over time adopt this sort of mentality: https://youtu.be/hNuu9CpdjIo?t=56

IMHO we're well past the point where any sort of security by obscurity with regards to the algorithm prevents any sort of automated influence on social media and the negative impacts of this kind of moderating technique only causes more damage than it prevents / mitigates.

charcircuit 3 hours ago [-]
X may be the platform you are looking for.

https://github.com/xai-org/x-algorithm

nothercastle 2 hours ago [-]
X is bad it always reverts to low effort content and then bombards you with constant racisms and sexism. There are Jems but you are constantly swimming in a river of garbage
pydry 9 hours ago [-]
i would like this too but I dont see any way to maintain anonymity or pseudonymity and clamp down on spamming.

you can have neither or both but I dont see any way to have one without the other.

>The more that I interact with moderators on social media the more I've come to realize that as much as they're burnt out from answering the same questions from not-bad actors over and over

I'm mystified why this isnt a problem AI isnt applied to.

wizzwizz4 5 hours ago [-]
It is: /u/AutoModerator can be used for that.
gosub100 4 hours ago [-]
> One of the reasons is that posting a few short words wins in upvotes because they get posted first

It's not being first to the race, it's that some people are lazy and don't want to read "long" posts but will optimize for snappy quips that are more likely to be upvoted. This incentives some "karma whores" to make these posts instead of engaging with the topic more.

4 hours ago [-]
EA-3167 12 hours ago [-]
A non-trivial number of the newer accounts that do that are bots, ban-dodgers building karma, people aging accounts for general resale and so on. Even a lot of "human" activity on Reddit isn't in good faith before you even get to the general triviality 99.9999% of it represents.

Plus at this point if you really want to ask what Reddit thinks ask an LLM, it'll tell you in painful detail without exposing you to that place. Just remember to check claims and sources (a good practice for human claims as well as LLM ones).

charlesfries 10 hours ago [-]
The business model is fundamentally broken. Reddit, unlike other sites driven by user-generated content, forgoes the cost of huge (but ideally impartial) content moderation teams in favor of unpaid user moderators, leading to what you've described. Nothing will change unless the business model changes.
TheqO 10 hours ago [-]
Yes, it's now a listed company.

Shareholders want to get paid. CEO wants to get paid.

The primary KPI's are revenue and profit, customer satisfaction will only matter if people actively quit.

I started to get banned from subreddits after giving perfectly polite comments which happened to be contrary to popular opinion, so stopped posting on Reddit and only read it with an ad-blocking browser.

Don't give them content, don't give them your data and revenue. Reddit know full well that there should be an appeal process to user-mod nazi's. But these people obsessively post new content on their forums and so are protected.

RIP Aaron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvcc9C8SbM

philipallstar 7 hours ago [-]
Twitter did the same with paid mods, because paid mods are no more likely to be impartial than unpaid ones.
Hendrikto 7 hours ago [-]
Paid content moderation teams are also biased and partial.
dataengineer56 6 hours ago [-]
Yes but not to the same extent. Professional, paid moderators following a centrally-defined set of rules are going to act differently to terminally-online volunteer mods.
andai 5 hours ago [-]
I heard an influential person say thing about YouTube. That the "real" leaders of popular movements get banned, and then people get a completely distorted idea of what people actually believe, because the only exposure they get is to the ones YouTube approves of.
neuronic 5 hours ago [-]
This is absolutely true and a main reason why you will see a lot of Pikachu faces in r/de after a German election. This is true for most subreddits which are touching on topics that in some form or another promote tribalism.

Such topics tend to naturally create opinionated flame wars, politics just being the most obvious example, but the subreddit mods often take a side even though the subreddit may advertise itself as the general hub for the topic.

bel8 4 hours ago [-]
My friend told me the same phenomenon happens in Brazil's canonical subreddit /r/brasil

I'm told that their mods tolerate left leaning hate speech much more than right leaning counterpart so unaware visitors think current left leaning government is beloved by a great majority and that it has been for years.

But they told me that last election ended very tight, something like 49/51% and I'm told current imminent election is at similar 50/50 split.

Same probably happened with German election.

assimpleaspossi 5 hours ago [-]
I visit two subs every day and get banned from both of them maybe three times a year. I am an expert in one area and experienced in the other. I typically respond only to outrageous responses to someone who asked a seemingly innocent question. Because I disagreed with the majority I typically get my karma down so low that my comments aren't showing or, last week, I was banned altogether.

No. I'm not nasty or disrespectful. I just disagree and give the reasons why.

I try to be helpful but I no longer care. I only glance at the titles in case something new shows up. I don't want to sound like I'm bragging but, as I said, I'm an expert in one area and experienced in the other and reddit users lose that. I know others feel the same way and never go there. I wish I wouldn't.

complex_fir_rea 3 hours ago [-]
Your experience is similar to mine. I feel like my most stupid and forgettable comments generally get more attention and upvotes, but when someone makes a comment that's clearly false and I respectfully disagree citing authoritative sources, people get defensive and in some cases reply with ad hominem.

Tried to clear a confusion between DDR5 / LPDDR5 / DIMM standards and cited the relevant JEDEC standards with specific quotes? Get downvoted, all of arguments ignored and replied with more false information.

Tried to argue that, even if given a charitable interpretation, some units of measurement could be confused if not written correctly (on a conversation where such confusion was clearly happening already)? Downvoted.

Explain the difference between latency and throughput? Explain that O(1) ⊂ O(n)?

Reddit is full of idiots who are too confident about things they don't understand and aren't humble enough to admit they're wrong, so they just insist and I just don't care anymore.

And let's not even get started about having nuance and a balance point of view in politics.

saghm 4 hours ago [-]
Without more details, it's not really clear that your example leads to the conclusion you give. Plenty of subreddits for games are run by the community rather than the company who owns the IP, and any company serious about getting feedback isn't going to blindly trust a subreddit even if they do moderate it themselves.
dminik 6 hours ago [-]
Yeah. I don't want to be conspiratorial, but there is some heavy censorship happening in certain (or maybe most) subreddits.

A good example is worldnews. For a long time I thought it was a pretty good source of, well, news. But at some point I started noticing that certain topics (cough Negativity about Israel cough) which got a decent amount of discussion were deleted as duplicates of posts that came in later and had 0 comments and could not be seen on hot/top/whatever.

Back to your topic, I think this is in large part due to the death of multiple forums and personal websites and the aggregation of everyone to like 4 platforms.

In the past, if you were banned or didn't like one forum, you could find another. Or maybe just post your thoughts on your own website/blog. But now nobody will see it unless it's on reddit, discord or YouTube.

I don't think we can get that back, but maybe a bluesky(-ish) forum/reddit alternative where you can chose who you interact/see posts and comments from would work well. It would take another collosal fuckup to get people to move and even then... Lemmy was alive during the API/third party apps thing and nobody really moved.

someonebaggy 5 hours ago [-]
worldnews is a really egregious example of what you're talking about. If you say one negative thing about Israel it gets deleted, you get banned from the sub and sometimes even banned from Reddit. Of course other subs do this on other topics too.
odiroot 4 hours ago [-]
And worldnews is still quite tame with it. Other news subs are much harsher in their moderation, especially the EU local ones.
atraac 8 hours ago [-]
I feel like most of their problems come from downvoting, not mods though. It's just not possible to have a real discussion on reddit anymore, because anything that is not the mainstream opinion just gets insta downvoted. People will literally downvote anything they don't agree with, and seem to be more likely to do that if they see the comment has a negative score already. If they allowed subreddits to turn off downvoting, and have HN-like system where every new comment lands on top for a while to give everyone a chance, that whole place would be much more healthy.
Aunche 6 hours ago [-]
The most nefarious behavior I've seen is when the mods shadowban every argument they disagree with that has positive upvotes but leave arguments they disagree with that has negative upvotes to give the impression that everyone on the opposing side is stupid.
Akronymus 8 hours ago [-]
HN also only gived downvote perms after being active, afair.
saghm 4 hours ago [-]
IIRC it's unlocked at 500 karma. You need to contribute in ways the community considers valuable before you can signal that something isn't valuable.
Akronymus 4 hours ago [-]
Yeah I wasn't sure of the actual threshold (I kinda just lucked into a lot of karma early on because of a post about factorio releasing 1.0)
saghm 2 hours ago [-]
Ah, that makes sense. I'm basically the opposite, in around a decade I've posted articles directly maybe a dozen times, so it took me a while before I received the privilege to downvote.
ruszki 9 hours ago [-]
Why doesn't this happen with racism? In European subreddits, speaking about gypsies in a racist way is followed by a ban. Yet, it's still there, and quite clear that that's the norm in Europe. Compared with topics of homeless people, about who Eastern Europeans talk the exact same way as about gypsies, and with the same logic - it's just not "protected", so it's not banned - I encounter both regularly.
IsTom 9 hours ago [-]
> speaking about gypsies in a racist way is followed by a ban

I'm suspecting that is only because of behaviors learned from US on the internet. If not for that they wouldn't have thought of banning for it. It's not a topic that comes up often, but IRL negative views on gypsies are the norm in Europe.

I think it's important to understand that it's viewed as culture issue, not color-of-skin issue (that is something that can be changed, people of gypsy heritage that go to school and work are not considered gypsies for this) and so not getting filled in the category of "racism".

carlob 7 hours ago [-]
Maybe I don't understand exactly what you are saying, but if I do: there is a fundamental difference between Gypsies and homeless people, you are born a gypsy by no fault of your own, but most people are not born homeless. As such racism towards Gypsies is far more heinous because you could have any education, profession, income, housing situation you'll always stay a Gypsy and face the same prejudice, whereas you can (somewhat) more easily stop being homeless.

Now we could have a discussion on whether being poor is a choice or a consequence of societal inequality, but I think more people agree on racism here...

Hendrikto 7 hours ago [-]
It is not at all about race. It is about the lifestyle. And you definitely choose that yourself.
ruszki 3 hours ago [-]
Looking at Eastern Europe, how some behavior which is net negative to everybody in the current environment still alive 200 years after the zero sum game is dead, I would say, that's not that simple.
OroPla 6 hours ago [-]
Gypsies aren't a race, what they do is a lifestyle. Kinda like classical pirates and brigand bands. But while the latter examples have disappeared for the most part in Europe, gypsies are still a plague upon law and order.
ruszki 3 hours ago [-]
> Gypsies aren't a race, what they do is a lifestyle

I said the exact same thing for like 20 years. Until I realized that this thought is utterly racist. Luckily, I was disgusted about myself and my environment where this is a normal thought, and improved, instead of doubling down.

You've just called a behavior based on a name of an ethnic group. You cannot be more racist than that.

vconnor 8 hours ago [-]
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KevinMS 12 hours ago [-]
Not that long ago to find both sides of an argument in the comments you could search by "controversial" and the negative comments would be at the top and often you'd agree with them, or at least appreciate the debate. Now they are mostly gone. It was probably a combination of banning wrong-think and dissidents learning to not waste their time.

The worst thing for a forum is to let users punish comments they disagree with, you know, one way by fading out their comments until you cant read them.

aurareturn 12 hours ago [-]
I think it's the latter. People don't want to waste their time.

Echo chambers have gotten stronger.

OroPla 3 hours ago [-]
It's not so much the time wasted in discussions, but the time wasted in having to create new accounts, since your old one got banned from the platform. Though, since the last presidency change in the USA it feels like reddit has gotten less ban-happy.

Before I added a bunch of subreddits to my blacklist that will never show up again in a search engine I had to make a new reddit account every four to six months.

LtWorf 9 hours ago [-]
The mod for r/linux was famous for banning anyone who didn't take his side in the kde/gnome systemd/systemv or whatever (I don't remember).

They got rid of him just because the owner of the subreddit was someone else who wasn't really using reddit any more but still could kick that mod.

Karrot_Kream 11 hours ago [-]
While I do think quality of subs can be quite high (much higher than discourse here for certain topics and certain subs), this is a pretty well known problem. Discussion on this [1] from a post I made earlier.

r/sanfrancisco is quite negative on the current mayor Daniel Lurie and frequently expresses approval for Zohran Mamdani even though Lurie has an approval rate of 74% in SF [2] while Mamdani has a 69% favorability [3] in NYC largely because of the political skew of the sub.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49556546

[2]: https://www.sfchronicle.com/politics/article/sf-mayor-lurie-...

[3]: https://sri.siena.edu/2026/09/23/siena-poll-of-likely-new-yo...

sliqqq 9 hours ago [-]
Perfect explanaition! I see this not only in politics, but also in simple tech or niche fields I'm very familiar with, sometimes even medical things I have to deal with for 20 years: If it doesnt fit the (uneducated) mods' view, it will get downvoted or (shadow)banned. Resulting in bizarre threads with 40k upvotes, but no actual answers on the open question, because the answers have been removed. Totally nuts.
voidifremoved 9 hours ago [-]
This is true in every online space, whether explicitly or implicitly.
dogleash 1 hours ago [-]
> The biggest problem I have with reddit is mods can slowly but systematically ban users who express unfavourable opinions

I recently got banned from subreddit A1 because I commented in subreddit A2 without knowing the ongoing bloodfeud where A1 moderators didn't find the A2 moderators strict enough. I'm a tourist to the topic "A" all together and barely understood the lore of the topic. Let alone the cultural eggshells of following a search result into the wrong subreddit.

ainiriand 10 hours ago [-]
I fully agree with your point of view. I think that I saw it the clearest when, in a Magic the Gathering subreddit I usually follow one person started a thread on a set of rare cards and immediately was downvoted to oblivion, and later on closed by the mods. Turns out that those cards were indeed legit, and just because everyone else thought they were not nobody got to see them once the booster opened.
ralfd 9 hours ago [-]
This is a difficult problem, because subs can also depend on ban-hammer-happy moderation.
stale2002 10 hours ago [-]
This is true! I know this because thats what I did. You can get away with almost anything as a reddit mod, and can systematically control whatever userbase you want.

In some case this is benign, like with advertisers and marketing, and in other cases it is much worse in which case there could be actual foreign enemy governments doing psyop campaigns on reddit.

Reddit isn't controlled by the company. Instead it is controlled by an army of anonymous nobodies who could have all sorts of bad motivations.

raverbashing 4 hours ago [-]
One of the most egregious cases of sub capture was definitely r/fauxmoi
Drupon 11 hours ago [-]
To give another simple example, Israel has managed to pollute the mods of r/worldnews enough to make it a singularly active cheerleader of the genocide until the last year or two.
lysp 7 hours ago [-]
This is what comes to mind for me too.

As an example, I am well aware of how strict r/worldnews is moderated on IvP topics, so I am extra careful to be factual rather than simply making comments based on more general thoughts, like I do for other areas.

I have responded to some comments in the past by responding by quoting legal cases, news links I sourced my comment from, or from subject experts.

It doesn't matter how accurate or factually proven the comment is. If it's even slightly critical, it'll end up with votes of anywhere from -10 to -50 from all the down votes.

For other people's comments, anything negative that hasn't been down voted into oblivion will always have the "cross" icon next to them, meaning it's listed as "controversial", which is when it has a large number of down votes, plus up votes to balance it out.

TheHalc 9 hours ago [-]
I was banned from there this summer after posting something relatively innocuous asking whether Palestine had a right to defend itself. At least, I assume that's why I was banned, they never actually gave a reason.
LtWorf 9 hours ago [-]
There is a single moderator for most of the big italian subreddits and he bans anyone that says "genocide bad". He also bans anyone who points this out.

Pretty sure that's his day job.

mschuster91 3 hours ago [-]
Where's the problem? r/worldnews is pretty Zionist in nature, and anime_titties, workreform plus way too many other "leftist" subreddits are anywhere from somewhat neutral over "Israel bad" to outright glorifying Hamas.

Don't want to engage with Zionists, go to anime_titties, don't want to engage with Qatari propaganda, go to worldnews.

Drupon 12 minutes ago [-]
My problem is that that website didn't let a small genocidal colony infiltrate and subvert its major frontpage subs 10 years ago.
altmanaltman 12 hours ago [-]
Can you specify more on the one video game franchise example you're talking about? If you mean Battlefield then they did not ban "any negative discussion", just incels bitching about allowing female characters to exist in a video game about WW2. Battlefield 6 sold 7 million copies in first three days and the franchise has not tanked in any conventional sense so I guess you're talking about some other incident.
pjc50 8 hours ago [-]
That description could cover almost any game released in the past decade. I suppose the more popular ones have multiple warring subreddits with different mod rules.

(pet hate: it's perfectly OK to call your subreddit xyz_offficial, even when you are in no way officially affiliated with the game developer or publisher)

lbreakjai 8 hours ago [-]
Battlefield is the opposite. I struggle to find a positive discussion about the game, which has a lot of flaws but which I still quite enjoy, as a very casual and occasional player.
satvikpendem 10 hours ago [-]
Maybe Halo or Dragon Age or Mass Effect is more likely.
pixelstack 8 hours ago [-]
not op, but can give my personal example. I was banned from one of the twitch streamers subreddits because I questioned hype about GTA 6 and called it ghetto simulator. Reason was for stirring controversial and provoking topics.
FoxITNow 5 hours ago [-]
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bewareofscams 6 hours ago [-]
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nomel 18 hours ago [-]
> Thin accounts: few comments, low scores, no real standing in the subreddit.

> Young accounts, or accounts with histories that are hidden or wiped.

Nope, this is no longer an indicator of a bot account. Many that I've looked into will have active posts to local town/region subreddits (often times multiple!) and different sports subreddits, sometimes getting unusually high amounts of karma in them (which suggests a network).

Turing test is looong dead, so no reason to assume the small fractions of a cent to make comments, to get a reasonable history, isn't being taken advantage of.

sippingabonedry 17 hours ago [-]
Too many subreddits still have minimum karma or account age requirements. Most of those are ruled by tyrant moderators so you're not missing much, but it's made the site largely useless. I estimate 60% of discussions on Reddit are fake or fabricated on some level.

Can't post honest questions anymore without posting obviously phony pandering banter first to increase your karma. What's worse, it promotes the bad behaviors the bots are actually good it.

Bring back forums.

Nifty3929 16 hours ago [-]
"Bring back forums" - I'm with you. I prefer forums as well, but when I think about it a little bit I can't say exactly why. Threaded conversations on specific topics, with moderation? That's basically Reddit (and forums). So what do you think it is that makes Reddit feel icky, versus the forums we've had in days of yore? Is it something fundamental about the system/experience, or is it just a "nobody goes there anymore... it's too crowded" problem?

Maybe the difference is the post/comments framing? Rather than an opening post with sequential follow-up replies? Maybe something about voting? Maybe it's all the bolt-on features?

cosmic_cheese 16 hours ago [-]
Part of it I think is that old-school forums tended to have tighter-knit communities that weren’t as prone to shifting around. People had to find the forum in the first place and then register a new account to post, which may sound trivial but presents enough friction to filter a lot of people (including many low-quality posters) out.

Contrast this to Reddit: its search and web searches instantly surface subreddits and one account gets you access to the majority of the site. Friction is nearly nonexistent.

I think forums were also less prone to power-tripping moderation. It was still a problem, but there’s not but so big-headed somebody can get about being a mod for some backwoods niche topic forum that will never get all that big.

Finally, some of it is owed to how forums were dominant during a time when the internet was primarily populated by the sorts of people who owned computers then: academics, nerds, and open-minded early adopters. The dynamic was just different. It’s also the part that’d be most difficult to reproduce today.

sippingabonedry 9 hours ago [-]
> So what do you think it is that makes Reddit feel icky, versus the forums we've had in days of yore?

Two things.

1. Voting: It changes the incentives for posting a comment. It becomes a popularity contest where people go after easy points by posting low quality but popular comments, rather than focusing on quality discussion. Similarly, quality posts are suppressed if they are unpopular. This behavior is killing what's left of this site too, but that's a discussion for another time.

Ordering posts chronologically removes this manipulation. Real life discussions are not threaded, and aren't voted upon.

2. Forums required investment by parties sufficiently dedicated to a topic: you need hosting, administration; this costs money. Reddit on the other hand inverts the equation. It incentivizes the worst of the worst people on the Internet (penniless losers with unlimited free time) to usurp power and build fiefdoms. In a way Reddit exploits them because they do their dirty work for free. This is who ends up controlling subreddits.

monkeywork 11 hours ago [-]
A few things I miss:

Smaller communities. You generally knew what kind of community you were participating in. Focused discussion. A forum was usually about a specific subject, rather than one account participating in dozens of completely unrelated communities.

Your identity was more compartmentalized. What you said on a linux forum didn't necessarily follow you into a motorcycle community.

Moderation had different incentives. If you ran a forum, you needed people to actually want to come back. Moderation that became too heavy-handed could kill the community you were trying to maintain.

Reddit essentially turned the forum model into one enormous site with thousands of sections, sounds great but broke more than it fixed.

Your Reddit account becomes a single identity spanning everything you do. Someone can look through your activity in completely unrelated subreddits, form an opinion about you based on that, and potentially use something you said somewhere else against you... no matter what the culture/norms/rules were of the other community.

A traditional forum depended on its community surviving. On Reddit, a subreddit can become extremely valuable simply because it occupies a desirable name and has accumulated a large user base. The underlying platform is doing most of the work of bringing people there. The moderator can be "all powerful" and heavy handed because they know rarely do competing subreddits actually work out.

demibabs 9 hours ago [-]
The names thing is a pretty big issue now that i think about it.

If you don’t like r/cars what are you gonna make to compete with it? r/cars2?

OroPla 3 hours ago [-]
The reasons forums are better:

- threads are linear

You post something to a five year old discussion, everyone in the forum notices.

- no voting

Doesn't matter whether your opinion is controversial or not, it is presented as just as valid as all other opinions and thus is worth engaging with, fostering debate.

- smaller communities

It is actually possible to read every post made to the forum and know every member.

- niche interest as the main driver of everything

Everyone is aligned on at least something and politics don't pervade everything.

- moderation can still kill everything

If you got a mod willing to remove posts or ban users for differences of opinion (sexist, racist, homophobe, transphobe, islamophobe, etc. etc) then everything dies either way.

Plont 14 hours ago [-]
Downvotes are cancerous, imo. It encourages petty fighting (great for "engagement" metrics) and discourages good faith contributors.

Even upvotes can be an issue. Oh, you wrote your comment the day after the post went up? Too late! Nobody's looking anymore, no upvotes for you. No replies either. You feel your effort has reached nobody and you have wasted your time, so you stop bothering to put in effort.

I think the generality of it pushes topics into "old and inactive" way too fast.

Also, reddit's moderation is terrible. Just look at how long hate subreddits have tended to last even after they started hitting r/all regularly. People who are worth talking to don't tend to hang out anywhere that starts to feel like little nazi camp. Subreddits are separated to an extent, which does help, but that only goes so far.

I think the visual design also discourages longer "wall of text" responses in a way that traditional forums often don't. Lots of things (especially anything nuanced) can't be said in a tweet.

I do think the size that comes from centralization is part of it too. "Communities" feel less community, and posts/discussions are abandoned too fast and almost never revisited (exceptions are posts that come up as the #1 google search result for a tech problem).

The default and r/all subreddits are the worst by miles, though.

But city subreddits and any kind of recommendation thread have been much shittier lately because of the bots and the chatgpt copypasters.

Little forums also have a lot more character in their visual design than reddit, and they tend to allow more customization for individual users too. It's easier to recognize a person behind a regular commenter if they have a big pfp image or a goofy signature.

nobleach 5 hours ago [-]
Oh man, I LOVED newsgroups back when they were being used for their intended purpose! I got a lot of help on the Delphi programming group back in the day. Every day was a new adventure of posts - and even some valuable flame-wars. I'm sure some of that still exists but most folks moved to PHP bulletin boards, and then on to other platforms like Discord/Telegram.
giantrobot 11 hours ago [-]
> So what do you think it is that makes Reddit feel icky, versus the forums we've had in days of yore?

Votes and karma. The concept of karma isn't bad but Reddit's implementation is bad. HN has a similar problem. There's only up and down votes with no context.

Why was a post upvoted or downvoted? Did people find it funny or informative? Did it correct the original link or a parent post? No fucking clue. Just scalar value that goes up and down. Then you get bad proxies for context with vote ratios (controversial etc).

Slashdot's voting system isn't perfect but much better. Instead of some scalar value a post is moderated with some sort of context (Interesting, Informative, etc). Voting is also distributed among users and limited. If you get moderator points you're limited in how many you get and you can't post to a thread you've moderated. Meta moderation also helps to correct for overzealous/reactionary moderation.

The context is useful because you get an idea of why something was moderated as it was. The limited number and random distribution of moderation points helps inspire actual moderation. You either downvote obviously trolling/bad faith posts or upvote actually constructive posts. No one wastes their mod points on memes and "me too" posts. Drive by memes and short knee jerk replies just wallow in the Score: 1 area most users quickly learn to filter out. They're not punished but also not rewarded.

Giving everyone unlimited mod points devolves a site into gaming karma. Trolls enjoy seeing how low their karma can get while karma whores will post whatever gets upvotes rather than something constructive. Karma is a bad proxy for constructive contributions to the community.

alex1138 11 hours ago [-]
HN has [flag]. And anything and everything is subject to it...
Teever 9 hours ago [-]
I'd like to hear more about how you feel the HN flag feature relates to the comparisons the user you replied to raised to the Slashdot voting system and context in voting.
geocar 13 hours ago [-]
> I estimate 60% of discussions on Reddit are fake or fabricated on some level.

Why so low?

I think it is higher than 99%

> Can't post honest questions anymore without posting obviously phony pandering banter first to increase your karma

Or just buy a "pre aged" account. They're only a few cents each if you buy them in bulk.

Sha1rholder 13 hours ago [-]
No. Much more expensive.
monster_truck 13 hours ago [-]
You are vastly underestimating the level of bulk
Cider9986 15 hours ago [-]
> Bring back forums.

Here's an active and good privacy forum: https://discuss.privacyguides.net

Here's an active and good private OS forum where privacy is discussed along with Android apps and the OS, ofc: https://discuss.grapheneos.org

kulahan 13 hours ago [-]
The major draw of Reddit is that it's a "forum" that covers every topic. These are cool, but I want a forum for succulents, and for SEA cooking, and for Eve Online, and for Hiking, and for...
Cider9986 12 hours ago [-]
It takes a ton of work to run a forum. In the case of the two examples I linked, there's simply no alternative on Reddit, so it's not an option to use Reddit. Those communities are vastly more knowledgeable, organized, kind, fairly moderated, etc, compared to r/privacy.

I guess you get what you put into it in terms of community.

I used to be more interested in succulents. It's a shame mine have to stay under grow lights to not stretch out. It would be cool to have them scattered around...

I could see succulents benefiting from a Discourse forum, but Reddit likely does the job pretty well with photo sharing. The nice thing about Discourse is, I feel like threads are more permanent.

A forum I would want is a modern cooking forum for homecooks with a slight focus on science. Although I have not actually searched for one. It comes up on HN from time to time.

someonebaggy 5 hours ago [-]
AFAIK privacyguides is rather controversial among actual privacy-minded people (the kind who would use GrapheneOS)
Cider9986 3 hours ago [-]
You may be out of date. I haven't heard anything recently. Are you thinking of this?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49880630

someonebaggy 3 hours ago [-]
Oh maybe it was privacytools then
Scottn1 16 hours ago [-]
Reddit started to become questionably relevant that I am even reading real humans anymore for me I'd say around 2021. Covid caused the internet "grift" of karm-farming, content creators shilling miracle products "they love", and hidden agenda posts with affiliate links to really take off. Slowly over time you'd notice fake sounding or off tangent type comments intertwined into threads. Some subreddits were way worse and some still felt pretty clean around that time.

But LLM's have completely and utterly destroyed Reddit. To the point of it feels like it is 75% FAKE conversations and/or astroturfed with only a FEW real people commenting anymore. Plus the LLM's have gotten so much better I catch myself sometimes wondering if a certain comment is from a real person or not. Just too much mental energy required for Reddit now to the point of I hardly go there anymore for anything other specific technical questions.

It is sad because it used to be a wealth of knowledge and community. All of /r/askreddit is just bot started ragebait questions, karma-farming or stupid hypotheticals now. /r/popular is just trashy. Constantly I notice videos that are sometimes 7-10+ years old getting reposted again like they are new, just to get rage conversation started again.

You cannot search for ANY product recommendations anymore. Fake "Hey I tried this brand and it was game-changing". No subreddit is safe. Look at /r/supplements now, it is full of those type comments to innocent topic starting questions that are also probably fake. Off topic stuff such as "xxx brand Beef liver supplement changing my life" when someone asks what brand of multivitamin others prefer.

Reddit used to have a few real cesspool subreddits one could avoid, but now I consider the whole site one. You can't even browse Reddit anymore without being blocked to download their app to continue. Old-Reddit now requires a login. Ads make it unreadable without a blocker.

Ugh. Just the worst of the internet all on display at Reddit now.

radlad 14 hours ago [-]
And all the LLMs are trained on it.
The_Blade 13 hours ago [-]
Ouroburos tossing its own salad
frr149 13 hours ago [-]
Bring back usenet! It was free and distributed
vintermann 12 hours ago [-]
and had virtually no ways to deal with bad actors, which is why no one uses it anymore.
intended 12 hours ago [-]
It’s trivial to understand why the useless banter is needed though.

Before people started using age limits on accounts, you had more bots and trolls on Reddit.

Forums had similar barriers as well, with general or low stakes sections you needed to develop age or standing within before you could post on other topics.

“Worse” isn’t a function of behaviors bots can do. There is no activity that dedication cannot make a bot cannot replicate.

It used to be that you could make out patterns in bot behavior to figure out which accounts were authentic and which were not.

With LLMs, those fingerprints are gone. They post in communities and behave in manners that are indistinguishable from normal users.

Forums worked because they were in an era that has long since past.

Krasnol 12 hours ago [-]
> Bring back forums.

How are/were they better? The gate keeping started with the registration and the mods on reddit learned from those on forums. Those are probably the same people.

I mod two small subreddits and the minimum karma "settings" are there so you can have a second look. You still approve them if they act like normal commentators.

Maybe you should try modding one too to get a clear picture and not just the memes about big subs.

geocar 13 hours ago [-]
> Thin accounts: few comments, low scores, no real standing in the subreddit.

> Young accounts, or accounts with histories that are hidden or wiped.

DDG search "buy pre-aged reddit accounts" and you will find all of these. You can even search reddit for this.

The author of the article has no fucking idea what they are talking about. Buying "comments" is for chumps.

> I score it this way because an account that keeps bringing up the same brand is the product the vendors above are selling.

Or man, I just like my knife: It's older than my kid, and I've never had to do anything but hone it, and it'll still cut a piece of paper or a tomato no sweat. The next comment will be someone asking what brand of knife it is.

paweladamczuk 13 hours ago [-]
I want to ask instead what stone you use and where/how did you learn to sharpen the knife?
samudrijan 12 hours ago [-]
How was the tomato?
wiseowise 10 hours ago [-]
What brand of knife is it?
hightrix 14 hours ago [-]
Yep. The hidden history especially.

I have a 15+ year old account that has a hidden history because far too many times someone dug through my comments, took something out of context, and pivoted to that instead of the actual conversation.

My take is that people should respond to the comment not the commenter.

password54321 7 hours ago [-]
Your comment history is still searchable. Just put the username in quotation marks and add site:reddit.
13 hours ago [-]
lbreakjai 8 hours ago [-]
I hid mine because someone with five minutes of free time could probably find my real name just from the small list of subreddits I follow: The town I currently live in, my home country, and a handful of subs from which you clearly can infer that I'm a software developer.
drop_star 17 hours ago [-]
Ya this is me. I used to use the web version now im 'required' to have an account. I just create and delete accounts every couple weeks. I use the generic Word-Word-#### and keep my history private.
irishcoffee 17 hours ago [-]
Out of curiosity, why? The amount of times I’ve banged out a Reddit or hn response and deleted it is almost uncountable. Why do you bother replying to Reddit comments?
benoau 16 hours ago [-]
You need an account just to browse old.reddit.com now, there's some extensions that do an okay job of emulating it but it's not quite the same.
Akronymus 8 hours ago [-]
set the cookie "redesign_optout" to true
gib444 16 hours ago [-]
Working proxies (though probably the emulation you're referring to):

https://github.com/redlib-org/redlib-instances/blob/main/ins...

Plont 14 hours ago [-]
Deleting a comment doesn't delete it from reddit's backend, only from public view, so reddit still retains and can track and sell your data. Making multiple accounts (assuming one also takes other steps like using a VPN and clearing cookies and local storage) would make it harder for reddit to connect all your comments and build a profile on you.
someonebaggy 5 hours ago [-]
That's why people were using extensions to edit their comments to random words instead. Apparently Reddit had no way to un-edit a comment. It's probably been fixed by now though.
lazyasciiart 17 hours ago [-]
They didn't even say they reply to anything. Perhaps they use it entirely to post local news stories.
mhitza 17 hours ago [-]
Unless you have a reliable social network with reach, reddit is still the reliable way to get some answers for one niche or another.
jjulius 17 hours ago [-]
"A", not "the".
fluoridation 17 hours ago [-]
Your behavior is even stranger than that which you are questioning. The fact you take the time to type out the response means you also feel the urge to respond, and that urge is strong enough that you don't stop yourself before starting, even though you know you are likely to just delete before sending. It's odd that you would ask why someone would reply to a comment when you should already understand why someone would do that: because they feel the same urge you do, and don't have the compulsion to stop themselves before sending.
x______________ 16 hours ago [-]
> Ya this is me. I used to use the web version now im 'required' to have an account.

Save yourself some trouble, forcing you to sign in is your browsing data stored in cookies. Incognito/private should allow you to browse without being logged in..

metalspot 13 hours ago [-]
> this is no longer an indicator of a bot account

it is trivial now to create synthetic multi-platform personas that generate real looking post histories at unlimited scale. the baseline assumption should be that everything on the internet is fake until proven otherwise.

sterlind 13 hours ago [-]
I've noticed this too. it's always towns and sports teams. but I thought I was being paranoid..

at least Eternal September was a human invasion.

vintermann 12 hours ago [-]
I noticed this on Twitter too (back when it was Twitter) I used to call political shill accounts SportsFan123. To my eyes they were heavily astroturfed long before LLMs.
13415 9 hours ago [-]
All claims about bot accounts are flawed when there is no independent confirmation of the methodology. You'd need to have some sufficiently data based on verified bot accounts and evaluate your methods and claims on this data. Many people claim they can identify bot accounts intuitively. I do believe they can to some extent, but it seems far-fetched to insinuate that this ability is accurate enough to evaluate some statistical methods based on indicators.
monster_truck 13 hours ago [-]
It also completely ignores the utterly massive greymarket for "aged" accounts, including but not limited to moderator positions. You can buy accounts old enough to drive with millions of karma

That's in part why the enforcement of the "no reposts" rules and their conditional counterparts is so selective, having the ability to allow/deny these on increasingly large subreddits effectively amounts to running a money printer as you can then pick and choose who is allowed to karma farm, or direct userbases to their hustle culture bullshit reselling pokemon cards, watches, shoes, or bots to do this, etc.

This is also why there is often so much frankly insane drama over moderators getting catfished, outed as pervs/creeps, etc especially after a genuine subreddit with solid original content gets "too popular".

There are also weird second order effects, especially in places like popular subreddits for games, where selectively allowing what complaints actually make it to the top of the sub are utilized by those who make disgusting amounts of money from botting/farming the game to sell in game items or currency for real money, to create what looks like a genuine public outcry for balance changes or features that seem fun/good on paper but at the end of the day only exist to make it easier for them to get more items to sell. This practice has roots predating reddit, back when everything was still forums and the RMT markets for titles like Diablo 2 were in their infancy. Earlier this year an RMT account for Path of Exile was finally banned, you can find videos where people go through archives of what they had on hand when it happened and tally up prices, no bullshit millions of dollars in total value.

I learned a lot of this firsthand by getting involved in a city subreddit when I first moved out on my own, some people found out I could code well enough and tried to pay me a lot of money to assist them in creating these kinds of farms/influence operations. I obviously declined, this is all so fucking stupid! A few of them flew too close to the sun and made millions of dollars through ad programs on places like facebook, used what they could to pay off their college loans, buy a nice car, and then lost their asses in court and declared bankruptcy after giving most of it back.

robotresearcher 15 hours ago [-]
> This article was drafted with AI from my outline

Maybe just post your human outline and the data, where the data processing and viz is AI assisted if you like.

The synthetic prose is not a value-add over your outline. It takes time to read, and reduces the bit-rate over your intentions.

ricardobeat 4 hours ago [-]
This kind of dense sentence is extremely tiring to read:

    > I wanted to know whether the knife subreddits I read, and scrape for New 
    Knife Day, show any sign of that. Not a hunch about one suspicious comment, 
    but something I could count and someone else could recount.
Everyone should adopt this rule: if the author didn't take the time to write it, you shouldn't take the time to read it.
kridsdale1 6 minutes ago [-]
I spotted Claude here:

> The practical check is the one the data endorses

tomrod 14 hours ago [-]
AI loopity. Where AI is used to generate unnecessary prose that others summarize via AI. This exacerbates lossy communication.
elcritch 14 hours ago [-]
Inverse compression.
DaiPlusPlus 13 hours ago [-]
If compression is intelligence, then is this kind of LLM use a sign of dumbness?
13 hours ago [-]
sterlind 13 hours ago [-]
expansion?
isoprophlex 12 hours ago [-]
Expansive confabulation
kridsdale1 6 minutes ago [-]
Filling with hot air
9 hours ago [-]
spinachsalad 3 hours ago [-]
You're absolutely right! ;)

The language is so obfuscated that the crude draft would really be better than this. I've just realized that one of the telltale signs of LLMs is: inventing a new terminology like here - tail accounts, never giving a direct definition what it really is, and then going with it, like it's obvious.

paweladamczuk 13 hours ago [-]
I think the same. I appreciate the effort put into research, but the AI tone is unbearable to me.
IshKebab 11 hours ago [-]
Yeah I immediately left at that point. I appreciate that he was up front about it though, so at least I could leave immediately.

OP there isn't a word length requirement on blog posts. You put all the information you learned into your instructions for the LLM. Just post that.

DharmaPolice 1 days ago [-]
There have been a few cases posted to the theoryofreddit subreddit where it's obvious that there were sets of accounts which were blanket recommending specific products a disproportionate amount of time. The user accounts involved were often banned shortly afterwards (or were deleted). These were (upon examination) really obvious though, often promoting extremely niche products using very exact terminology.

This I think leads to a sort of toupee fallacy - where because you can spot the really bad examples you feel confident that you can identify the much better, more subtle examples. If an account which has only made 50 comments (all of which are very generic) makes 20 comments in a single month explicitly recommending ImageGeneratorDeluxeProMax then sure, you can guess they might not be legit. But if an account runs for a longer period of time and makes a lot more general organic contributions then if 1 in 500 of their comments are in favour of a particular product then it's harder to say.

I think ultimately account age is the only thing that will be difficult to replicate at scale. I know people buy older accounts but there is still a fundamental difficulty in obtaining them in sufficient numbers. And yes, obviously that will mean disregarding the many millions of legitimate accounts that are under (say) 2 or 3 years old. There is also no easy way of hiding accounts under a certain age when searching Reddit via Google.

By allowing uses to hide user profiles Reddit has also made detecting potentially bad actors that little bit more difficult. And from experience it feels like a large proportion of accounts now have hidden post histories. (It might also be the default for new accounts, I'm not sure).

Telaneo 18 hours ago [-]
> But if an account runs for a longer period of time and makes a lot more general organic contributions then if 1 in 500 of their comments are in favour of a particular product then it's harder to say.

I've made recommendations a lot more often than that back when I used reddit just through being active in a specific niche-ish subreddit and regularly answering questions with answers that end up saying 'buy [well-known good product that solves this exact problem you want solved]'. Then again, my account was several years old by that point, and I was recommending probably 4-5~ different products depending on the question, all from different sellers, not to mention that I'd answer all kinds of different questions, building goodwill and recognition, so accusing me of being a bot (or just a human who has a financial interest in promoting certain products) probably wouldn't do much, but if you want assume ill-will, it'd be really hard to truly disprove that kind of accusation.

DharmaPolice 10 hours ago [-]
I suppose it depends on what the level of proof you need for your purposes. If someone is promoting Sony products at what feels like disproportionate rates then I don't necessarily want the person banned, but it would be useful to just filter that person out.

There's an additional problem that if an increasing number of people are getting their search results via AI summaries, the AI fetch bot is obviously including all this astroturfing.

Traster 8 hours ago [-]
It's often more useful to think about incentives than try to look for evidence. Even before AI is was relatively well known that "google is dead" and you couldn't research products using google because it was all just SEO slop, so instead people were googling "X product reddit" for recommendations on like menswear, or tools or whatever they were thinking about buying. And you just think to yourself, well yeah, if I were trying to drive sales for my brand, I would be astro-turfing on reddit. And what's the incentive that reddit has to stop this happening? They don't really sell effective ads, so it's not competition, it drives engagment, and the people really responsible for stopping this (if anyone is) are the moderators, who are unpaid and so are eminently bribe-able.

Everyone understands that pretty girl on instagram who has 300,000 followers is getting paid to show that make up in her stories, why on earth would you think the guy with 300,000 karma posting his fits on /r/malefashionadvice isn't getting the same?

22 minutes ago [-]
zergrush 15 hours ago [-]
This is why Reddit is a low value high effort distribution channel. When your userbase is hostile and suspicious constantly to any commercial introductions, advertising there becomes just an exercise in futility. The demographic also is problematic on Bluesky. Same on hackernews. Astroturfing is certainly a response to this friction and in turn it only creates more of it.

Also specifically with Reddit they have allowed hiding comment history which makes it even harder, I imagine they did this for boosting ad business

There are much better platforms to spend your effort on like X. X requires many users to purchase a subscription account and thus acts as sort of a litmus test (people who can afford low amount of money per month).

lackoftactics 4 hours ago [-]
I got restricted on X for making fun of Matt Pocock ai methods like GRILL ME while having verified account and paying subscription. It's back to normal, but it was demotivating experience and I stopped caring about X
khazhoux 14 hours ago [-]
> Also specifically with Reddit they have allowed hiding comment history which makes it even harder

Such a terrible change, and it's apparently the default for new users. I have no way to check if the person I'm about to spend 3 minutes typing a reply to is just bleep-bloop.

minimaxir 13 hours ago [-]
The hidden history is particularly annoying when evaluating if someone is a troll operating in bad faith or not; in my experience, when someone makes a comment that is completely out of pocket, their profile is almost always hidden. That is selection bias, however.

IMO it is a net negative.

rlonstein 5 hours ago [-]
> The hidden history is particularly annoying when evaluating if someone is a troll operating in bad faith or not; in my experience, when someone makes a comment that is completely out of pocket, their profile is almost always hidden. That is selection bias, however.

Agreed. Hiding history has become a negative signal or, really since it's so common to hide, open history is a positive signal.

There used to be bots that summarized an account's posts. One, I think it was usersimulator, was particularly amusing as it ran a markov chain over the account and generated a fresh post in the style of that user. Quite telling.

I still use reddit but I tag accounts using RES and sometimes see the same bad apples turn up in other subreddits.

dopa42365 12 hours ago [-]
It's like the racist facebook users profile picture meme, but with "concerned" reddit users post history (always hidden).

10 years ago redditors took some pride in transparency, you were able to check who you were talking to based on their profile (unlike boards like 4chan). Now it's auto-generated user names with hidden everything. Might as well get rid of unique names and profiles at all and call everyone anon.

EmbarrassedHelp 14 hours ago [-]
It also makes users feel more comfortable posting awful comments and comments that lack critical thinking skills.
kulahan 13 hours ago [-]
No it doesn't. Accounts are value-less to the average user. You just make a new one. I've got probably two dozen accounts on Reddit, most of which I've forgotten over the years.
gib444 5 hours ago [-]
I think it's a bit harder these days. A lot of shadow banning of new accounts, subreddits with min karma/age requirements etc
illusive4080 14 hours ago [-]
On the other hand, as a Christian Conservative, I used to have people sniping my profile and replying nastily to me when I commented on completely unrelated topics, just because my ideals didn’t align with theirs. Or, auto banning me from subs based on which subs I commented to. In that way, hiding my profile has helped me, because Reddit as a whole is extremely left wing.

Unfortunately, what you state is also true and it is now harder to avoid replying to bots, obvious shills, or trolls.

zergrush 14 hours ago [-]
yeah reddit but also its old as time I see people do it on HN as well

this type of behavior just comes from a deep place of misery and anger

the amount of time someone spends online is directly related to their socioeconomic status

someone with a rich vibrant and wholesome life with economic comforts to do travelling and hobbies dont have time to go through somebodys comment history and spend time judging and trying to instigate others

someone without those things are going to be online all day.

illusive4080 6 hours ago [-]
Happens a lot less on HN. While HN isn’t perfect, people are usually respectful to each other.
rvrs 13 hours ago [-]
what? the richest person on earth was so addicted to twitter that he bought it
khazhoux 9 hours ago [-]
he bought it to control the most politically-influential (at the time) social platform.
duskdozer 5 hours ago [-]
Moderators are still able to see your post history without extra steps.
caminante 4 hours ago [-]
Everyone can also go to one of the "unreddit" sites to workaround this privacy feature.

Unless you delete before scrapers get it, it's stored on multiple databases.

zanderwohl 10 hours ago [-]
> Astroturfing is certainly a response to this friction and in turn it only creates more of it.

It's a little unfortunate that when marketers see something that is resistant to commercialization they decide to become even bigger liars instead of letting someone tell them "no".

gib444 15 hours ago [-]
> There are much better platforms to spend your effort on like X

That was a good punchline!

acomjean 33 minutes ago [-]
It was very useful for me finding a locksmith and junk remover. But i looked in the local threads.

But I noticed Reddit now showing me an ad for a site that seems to indicate it scrapes Reddit for local contractor reviews..

BatteryMountain 10 hours ago [-]
It's had a problem for 10+ years. Not just astroturfing, but proper propaganda pushing on various topics & countries. It quite obvious as an 'outsider'. Then there is all the ai bots/posts that are being fine tuned by humans (deliberate incendiary posts, logical fallacies, which then get corrected by humans). Then the yearly cyclical repost of the same content and comments.. after a few years it become quite clear that certain content gets reposted over and over, by bots or staff. That is unusable.
yayachiken 7 hours ago [-]
My favorite anecdote for an astroturfing suspicion I had was in German subreddits.

Whenever somebody was talking about rolled oats, without fail, somebody would chime in that Kölln brand rolled outs were strictly superior and they would gladly pay the 4x markup for them.

It is hilarious because rolled outs are probably one of the most fungible goods out there. Also the comments eventually just... stopped.

Human perception is weird like that so even identical oats may taste better if the packaging is different, and also it might have been a memetic thing, but I am still somewhat convinced that it was a marketing campaign.

meindnoch 7 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
smcleod 17 hours ago [-]
"The corpus, and the refresh that changed the answer" ... hello Opus 5.
ericbarrett 15 hours ago [-]
It wasn’t just the LLM language, the sections “The corpus” and “What the data supports” were disjointed and unconvincing. Likely due to lack of human wrangling. Unfortunately they were the core of the analysis.
OrangeDelonge 17 hours ago [-]
I found the article very hard to read. I have never used Opus 5 so not even negatively biased.
15 hours ago [-]
spyckie2 17 hours ago [-]
My brain at some point refused to read past paragraph 3 and I just felt defeat.

An article talking about astroturfing but so tone deaf as to not even rewrite its ai generated content to be human readable.

It truly feels like the dead internet.

tom_ 15 hours ago [-]
Well done on getting that far. I noped out after the first sentence, and kicked myself for not realising it just based on the title.

EDIT: oh, hang on, I read some other comments, and it turns out there's an AI disclaimer - and, now I check again, it's true! There is! Well, fair enough then, but I think this disclaimer should come literally right at the start

spyckie2 14 hours ago [-]
I'm at the stage where I automatically assume everything as AI assisted, but am still willing to engage if there is some effort to humanize.

There is less than zero effort on this one. I don't even think the author read the output himself.

Krssst 17 hours ago [-]
The article does state clearly first that it was first drafted with AI, I appreciate the author's honesty. I wish all AI-assisted articles would do the same.
jonathanlb 16 hours ago [-]
Even better would be if the draft were written _first_ by a human, then edited in collaboration with AI.
asksomeoneelse 1 days ago [-]
Niche topics like linux feel somewhat safe from bots. But the last time I checked the more popular subs.. yikes..

When I see 2-weeks old account "Incendiary-Leg-8592" responding to a post by another weeks old user "Pivotal-Kitchen-0498", I have a hard time believing they are humans behind them.

duxup 23 hours ago [-]
Maybe some niche subs are safe-ish from targeted bots, but I'm seeing some niche subs constantly hit by bots who misunderstand what the sub is actually about and post something that maybe matches the words of the sub's name ... but not the actual intent of the sub. Basically lost bots, and they don't stop.

Also the software / programming subs are just spam hell now.

k__o 21 hours ago [-]
>Also the software / programming subs are just spam hell now.

"i got tired of x so i built y" is my entire feed. none of my niches are safe. heartbreaking

efromvt 15 hours ago [-]
it's a little funny to see just how much astroturfing there is for some software, and how creatively it can be worked into some posts.
lazyasciiart 17 hours ago [-]
Doesn't even have to be bots. Just dumb humans who see a sub name like 'fostering' and don't bother to read far enough to see 'CHILDREN' so they post about giving away a dog.
someonebaggy 17 hours ago [-]
They're not lost. They're building up a history of non-spam posts.
trollbridge 15 hours ago [-]
In the electrician subreddits, it’s painfully obvious whenever something is a bot, since… nobody ever really has anything terribly positive to say about any new brands. There are a few established brands with respect like Fluek, Knipex, and Klein. But it’s mostly a community of haters.

Periodically an account shows up promoting something asinine and it sticks out like a sore thumb.

delecti 17 hours ago [-]
Do you use the "old" reddit view? Reddit introduced display names separate from account usernames, but old reddit doesn't show them. The user that shows up as Incendiary-Leg-8592 on old Reddit might have simply accepted reddit's suggestion when they created their account, and appear to everyone else (whatever the old/new reddit breakdown is) as something less spammy looking.

Assuming you do indeed still use "old" reddit, the next time you see such a comment, open their account page in a private window (or any browser that isn't logged in). They might look different to themselves and most others.

numpad0 14 hours ago [-]
old reddit is only accessible by blocking access to www. Account pages are also dynamically hidden and it can be difficult to do that.
delecti 14 hours ago [-]
Old reddit is a checkbox on your account preferences page.

And on new reddit you can see user names and display names even when accounts have their post/comment history hidden.

jmuguy 1 days ago [-]
I'll bet there's a browser extension to hide comments and posts from those auto generated user names. Like maybe you end up not seeing something interesting because someone used a throwaway account, but otherwise I don't really care what someone has to say that can't even be bothered to pick a name.
bunderbunder 18 hours ago [-]
This seems like a bad shibboleth.

It’s actually easier for astroturfers to pick non-autogenerated names when they create accounts because they won’t feel any pressure to put much thought into it.

I would also bet that the vast majority of human users don’t bother to pick their own name because they don’t initially intend to post, they’re just creating an account because that’s all but required just to even read Reddit these days. Some fraction of them might later be motivated to comment, but by that time the account already exists.

nomel 18 hours ago [-]
Then you're blocking most people that sign in with Apple or Google, which is what Reddit first suggests. It's still probably a reasonable filter, for tech related people, but not in general
FlowingRiver 17 hours ago [-]
Maybe isn't of hiding, it can colour highlight it. At least then, you have some potential context.
Good4boothee 1 days ago [-]
It would be trivial for spammers to at least use different pattern. I am afraid they keep to the default, cause real users do the same. I am not surprised, the chance of colliding with other user login, on registration, on such old and popular website is high.
12 hours ago [-]
monksy 18 hours ago [-]
Oh no its not. It's just less invaded.. it will get worse with the more people that use it.

Word-Word-#### have become the norm ever since they've been pushing mobile users to use reddit. They also are a good source of questionable users.

antisthenes 2 hours ago [-]
> When I see 2-weeks old account "Incendiary-Leg-8592" responding to a post by another weeks old user "Pivotal-Kitchen-0498", I have a hard time believing they are humans behind them.

One thing I found out is that normies really don't care about their usernames. They fundamentally don't understand the need for pseudonymity on the internet, so they are okay with whatever the website assigns to them.

It's just a little bit of extra friction to them to start sharing their opinions on the site.

NoMoreNicksLeft 12 hours ago [-]
I was under the impression that those were the auto-generated usernames that reddit itself now offers (enforces?). Better to hide all the other bots, if the few humans look like bots too.
sixothree 1 days ago [-]
It's crazy to me they are presenting sluggified account names as something that should be taken seriously. But I guess it doesn't matter because most people just don't notice, and worse, the technology surrounding reddit does not seem to care.
1970-01-01 3 hours ago [-]
Reddit has enslaved itself as the complaint department of the Internet. Like a dead tree in the forest, it remains very useful but there is no way it can become anything more than an attractive home for wild takes and "fungal videos". As the major branches fully decay, expect the content rot to reach the subreddit layers and the entire structure will be slowly weathered away by time.
rithdmc 1 days ago [-]
I think the items listed under "What astroturfing would look like" were a pretty narrow scope. If I were designing a ~spam system~ astroturfing solution, I'd engineer out these four simple indicators as soon as I could.

* Those accounts naming one brand almost every time they name any. * Thin accounts: few comments, low scores, no real standing in the subreddit. * Young accounts, or accounts with histories that are hidden or wiped. * Links to a store or an affiliate page.

iamnothere 1 days ago [-]
It may be that the people most likely to blindly follow astroturfed suggestions don’t pay attention to these indicators. In which case volume is more important than camouflage.
JimDabell 8 hours ago [-]
Camouflage is a requirement for volume in subreddits with effective moderation.
iamnothere 8 hours ago [-]
As long as the mods/admins aren’t friends with the people running the bots, true.
rithdmc 1 days ago [-]
I was only thinking about detection evasion. The indicators listed would stick out like a sore thumb.
socializer 1 days ago [-]
My impression is that this doesn't show anything. It essentially implies that brand loyalty is equivalent to paid astroturfing, but if you've been around hobby communities on the internet, you know that a lot of people are just brand blowhards. And in any case, by its own admission, none of the results in this article are statistically significant, so it fails to find the effect it implies to have found.

I strongly believe that there's a lot of paid product placement and paid political talking points on Reddit, so it's actually remarkable that this (LLM-generated) article fails to find it. I suspect it's just bad design.

If you're already spending money on tokens, there's a very simple experiment you could do instead: just pay one of these companies to position a made-up product and see what they do.

micromacrofoot 1 days ago [-]
some people will expend a surprising amount of effort to justify their personal choices

at this point astroturfing is a given... corporations do it, governments do it, individuals do it... anonymous content in aggregate can not be relied on

PyWoody 1 days ago [-]
I gave up on any product related reviews on Reddit a decade ago. It can still be useful for guides that may describe what type of products you should look into, e.g., woodworking tools, skincare, etc.

For product reviews, I've been using GearLab (https://www.techgearlab.com/) for years with pretty reliable results. I have no affiliation with them.

fourside 1 days ago [-]
I wasn’t aware of GearLab, thanks for the tip. I will say, though I took a look and it seems like they heavily use Amazon links so they suffer from similar downsides as Wirecutter.

Amazon nowadays is such a crapshoot. A link to a product isn’t reliable. The price could be different than what the review stated, and the link might be for an listing that shows as out of stock. I think GearLab tries to fix this by giving you a link to search results on Amazon instead, but in some ways that’s worse. In the couple of links I tried the reviewed product wasn’t the top result so now it’s up to you to decide which of the links is the real one.

That loses some of the value prop for me because part of what I want from a service like this is to give me a link to a legit product listing. That’s not GearLab’s fault, Amazon makes that very difficult, but it still reduces the utility for me. That said it’s better than nothing which just points to the sad state of affairs in e-commerce today.

Edit: it looks like at least some of their links take you directly to the product page. Not sure why some of them take you to a search results page instead, but my guess is it’s an issue with expiring links.

HaloZero 1 days ago [-]
I imagine they only review places that will give them affiliate points. I was curious if they tested the mattic in the robot vacuums category and they didn’t.
rafram 1 days ago [-]
These days there are central clearing-houses for affiliate links that support basically every store, for the rare case where a product isn't available on Amazon/Best Buy/etc. Matic seems to use something called Impact.com. I don't see why that would be a concern.
HaloZero 1 days ago [-]
Are you suggesting that all retailers even boutique/smaller ones use affiliate codes regularly?

That's an interesting development. I was under the impression that outside of larger retailers, affiliate codes weren't as common.

I'm curious then why did techgearlab not choose to review the matic which is certainly a new interesting player in the robot vaccuum game. I'll have to reach out!

rafram 1 days ago [-]
Most items are available from retailers like Amazon or Best Buy that have affiliate programs that work on all items. (They may not have the very best price, but that at least gives the review site something to link to, and more price-conscious people will shop around.) Other retailers participate in clearing-house programs like Impact, and others with charming names like Skimlink, Geni.us, etc.

For the minority of products that are only sold directly by the manufacturer (which includes Matic), yes, I think it would be very unusual not to have an affiliate program. Matic even has a crappy one for consumers. For one thing, YouTubers, who keep absolutely no distance between business and editorial, aren’t gonna talk about your product unless they can put an affiliate link in the description. Sometimes manufacturers will use something like Impact, other times a publisher will need to reach out directly.

PyWoody 1 days ago [-]
From their About[0] page:

  No Ads, No Freebies, No Promotion
  We refuse to accept any manufacturer's free evaluation units, and we do not accept any paid endorsements. Our focus is strictly on creating content for the benefit of our readers, and we align our business model to focus on our reader's interests.
Again, not affiliated; just a satisfied user.

[0] https://www.techgearlab.com/about

fourside 1 days ago [-]
At the top of the home page:

> When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which helps support our testing.

That’s what the parent comment was referring to

HaloZero 1 days ago [-]
Yes, I assume when they choose "who to test" affiliate commission is factored in.
losvedir 1 days ago [-]
What's their business model? A priori, I don't trust them because there's no reason for them to give out all that information for free. I assume it's a affiliate marketing / referral revenue stream? I suppose it could be fair within those parameters, but it would mean there's no incentive for them to test products that don't have such a program.

I pay for Consumer Reports, since you actually need a paid subscription to access the data, which makes sense structurally. I don't really know if the reviews are any good, though I've been relatively happy with it. I also paid a subscription for an independent supplement testing lab, but I forget what it's called at the moment.

PyWoody 1 days ago [-]
Man, this comment is getting way more attention than I expected lol

Yes, they work on an affiliated model. From their About[0] page:

  How We Make Money
  GearLab is a free service that is entirely reader-supported. We select and review products objectively and independently. We only make money when you click on our affiliate links and buy products we've reviewed, which helps support our testing work.
  
  If you click on a retailer's link on our site and make any purchase, the retailer will contribute a portion of the sale to help support this site. It won't cost you anything extra, and it's a simple way to help us fund our gear reviews. Thanks for your support of our work!
[0] https://www.techgearlab.com/about
rafram 1 days ago [-]
GearLab is legit. Their outdoor sibling (https://www.outdoorgearlab.com/) is also great. I think the whole concept of "best" in a product category is fairly flawed, but they do it well; their individual product reviews are even better.
mjmsmith 17 hours ago [-]
sota_pop 4 hours ago [-]
Came here to say this
close04 1 days ago [-]
> For product reviews, I've been using GearLab (https://www.techgearlab.com/) for years with pretty reliable results. I have no affiliation with them.

Why would you assume any website is immune to this problem of bots and fake or paid reviews? Bots are so cheap now and smart enough to pass as realistic humans.

Even with good intentions, money runs out eventually (they say no ads and no sponsored content) and someone with deep pockets will exploit this.

Eventually everyone will just have to implement the foolproof solution of putting in the rules that saying that their website has a problem is "a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills" and be done with it.

PyWoody 1 days ago [-]
Because they are not a review aggregator? They purchase the products themselves, do extensive testing, and then publish their results. You can find more about their process on their About page here: https://www.techgearlab.com/about.
close04 1 days ago [-]
I was editing my comment but I can go into detail about what I mean here.

I understand how they operate (it's in the middle of their main page) but that actually makes it more difficult for them. The site commits to test thousands of products each year and they don't do sponsored content, free samples, or ads.

They're walking on a beaten path, see Rtings [0] (even the methodology and visual style, which is a good thing). Everyone eventually needs to look for alternative revenue streams to support themselves especially when the competition is fierce and doesn't always play fair. Affiliate link revenue via Amazon.com is not a reliable long term financing strategy for a review website which has to constantly purchase new stuff and pay qualified reviewers.

Most people search the local market for the product and buy the best deal. It doesn't need to be Amazon.com and in many cases, it can't.

[0] https://www.rtings.com/company/revamping-our-membership-prog...

rafram 1 days ago [-]
Why not? Wirecutter is a cash cow for the Times; if you can keep people's trust, recommending (and affiliate-linking to) products in semi-luxury categories is a lucrative business!
close04 1 days ago [-]
Don't ignore survivorship bias.

> Wirecutter is a cash cow for the Times

Wikipedia says the Wirecutter implemented a metered paywall a few years ago as additional source of financing. With the weight of the Times behind them they branched into other areas like podcasts and partnerships with countless other sites. This fits well into what I said in my earlier comment. Running this kind of business is hard and someone with deeper pockets will find an interest in it.

Just a few years after founding and shortly before selling to the Times for 1 year's worth of revenue, Wirecutter trialed a deal with Amazon for sponsored posts, along with exploring other revenue streams [2] like kickbacks.

> if you can keep people's trust

Trustworthiness and money don't always go hand in hand. Facebook is a cash cow and keeps people's trust as they keep coming back. Would you call it a trusted source of information? I remember the pendulum swinging against Wirecutter shortly after the sale. And plenty of reports since [1][2].

Rtings is the authoritative source for reviewing anything with a screen and they struggled financially, having to implement a subscription model.

And at the end of the day, taking Wirecutter as an indisputably trustworthy authority in consumer reviews, anyone else on the market has to compete with them with 2 possible options when reviews go head to head: agree and just be an echo, or contradict and go against the indisputably trustworthy authority. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place.

Maybe I'm, too cynical but the rug has been pulled from under me too many times to count by things that started out trustworthy than found the need or just the allure of money. With the internet only becoming more trustworthy over these past years I'm sure I have no reason to worry, right?

[1] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/08/wirec...

[2] https://www.xdesk.com/wirecutter-standing-desk-review-pay-to...

rafram 1 days ago [-]
Eh. I see what you mean, but I'm more optimistic about GearLab. I think Wirecutter is different for three reasons:

1. Wirecutter has to review everything. GearLab is more limited; they steer clear of non-technical clothing and their tech arm doesn't even really do camera reviews. They obviously know to avoid categories where there are established review sites that most buyers are loyal to. If Wirecutter misses a category, people will complain - that's the curse of being the "everything" site. Rtings has a similar issue.

2. Wirecutter reviewers work for the Times and are unionized; GearLab hires freelancers.

3. The Times is relying on Wirecutter (alongside Games) to prop up their journalism, which is the spiritual core of their business, and the only part that clearly contributes something to society, but struggles to make money on its own. Putting Wirecutter behind the NYT paywall makes people more likely to sign up for a NYT subscription. GearLab isn't paying for any journalists' pensions.

Wirecutter affiliate links make the Times something like $60-70 million per quarter [1].

[1]: https://www.nytimes.com/2026/05/06/business/media/new-york-t...

groundzeros2015 1 days ago [-]
Why are you answering questions for this site and pointing to their official material?
rafram 1 days ago [-]
Presumably because it's a good site and the qualms people are expressing with it here have no basis in reality.
1 days ago [-]
RMPR 11 hours ago [-]
This post does highlight the biggest difference between the Internet before and now (or reality for that matter). Given enough effort there is virtually no difference between a human and a non-human. Before you would join a community to feel a sense of belonging or learn or whatever. Now how do you even know you are not a minority (humans that is) in a given subreddit?
keiferski 7 hours ago [-]
It is really odd/shocking how bad Reddit is, and how there don't seem to really be any seriously funded competitors. I know that in theory, X and its new competitors like bluesky are alternatives, but I really don't see them as the same kind of forum-first site.

Is it because Reddit as a business is just generally a bad idea dependent on the free labor of mods?

tsumnia 3 hours ago [-]
> It is really odd/shocking how bad Reddit is, and how there don't seem to really be any seriously funded competitors

One of the modern issues is that once new competitors enter the market, their funders are publicized to stoke the mob's torches. When Digg was making its comeback last year, I remember seeing one about how it had funding from right wing organizations to incite left wing users to abandon it. This was also why news about George Soros buying Hot Ones made some headlines for a while.

The second a "public forum" starts gaining traction, people immediately start talking about the underlining "psyop" of the content that gets shared. But like... yeah, not everyone agrees on everything. I think that's why you DO sort of need a figurehead to be like "this is what I'm fine with my users talking about". They're immediately chastised as heartless lizard people (Zuck with Facebook), fascist (Musk with Twitter), or whatever "the Reddit mob" thinks of Huffman, but like... that's EVERY platform. Have you seen what WoW players think about Blizzard? Or how Discord's mascot is currently getting treated? 4chan was never good and whatnot.

People want a 'neutral' platform, but what they mean is a neutral platform where everything fits their personal ideologies, with an microcosm of "stupid" users that larp on the site (remember r/DogFort?). The issue, as has always been the case, is that once you have a group, someone realizes there's value in leading it. Then it becomes a textbook case of the Simple Sabotage Field Manual, but for convincing the users to buy products, watch films, and engage in specific activities that align with a demographic to reinforce beliefs.

Anyway, back to remembering to GET OFF THE INTERNET and continue sharing my stupid little fairy tale.

nullbio 4 hours ago [-]
The free mods are why the site sucks. It incentivizes power-trippers to gatekeep large communities without any common consensus on how moderation should be established, and without any oversight of the moderators.

There's no standard of professionalism or repercussion for being a terrible moderator, most of them are anon socially-weird outcasts with a chip on their shoulder.

When you're paying someone real money to be a moderator they tend to do a good job because they want to continue receiving that payment. The reward for a Reddit moderator is instead to feel like you're important and powerful, and that you can punish people you disagree with.

It also means that their power can generally be easily bought, because again, there's no repercussions for manipulating the board. Reddits incentives are entirely broken.

juddlyon 5 hours ago [-]
I frequent sports subreddits and they are chock full of AI created ragebait headlines. It’s incredibly hard resisting the urge to correct the ridiculous statements.

It was more fun when it was an incorrect human.

torton 14 hours ago [-]
I don't mind some astroturfing. But the amount of AI usage on that site, and the general polarization of opinions, is making it increasingly unappealing.
alun 5 hours ago [-]
It was clear that Reddit had an astroturfing problem, even pre-ChatGPT.

Funnily enough, Reddit got so bad that I stopped appending "reddit" to my queries and I often find myself appending "hackernews" instead (or more commonly, I ask the LLM to find HN discussions on the topic), just because the signal is much higher.

It also makes me think about how much of HN might be astroturfing. Less than reddit for sure, but certainly not 0%.

lackoftactics 4 hours ago [-]
My best guess was that video would be the last frontier, but I think I was naive about that too. The amount of content we’re producing right now and the changes coming to YouTube (allowing A/B testing of video edits). For example plan is to test multiple intros to retain the audience, might offer a glimpse into the endgame.
zelias 2 hours ago [-]
My understanding is that the astroturfing is now THE product offered to advertisers
neilv 1 days ago [-]
> REDCmts sells one Reddit comment for $9.99 and 100 for $699.99, from what it calls "real, aged accounts", and shows a gallery of brand mentions it says it delivered. Soar says its accounts are "aged and manually warmed" for weeks before a single brand mention. Bazzly advertises automated replies to every post that looks like someone shopping.

Why doesn't Reddit make sure that shilling is disallowed by their ToS, and then sue these companies and all their customers?

mingus88 1 days ago [-]
Because the only metric that matters for social media is engagement, and a war against active account, no matter the purpose, would make that line go down.

Also, shill accounts prove to advertisers that the platform works to make money. That’s the whole reason Reddit exists.

mountainriver 1 days ago [-]
YCombinator is not a social company. They actually do a ton to try to stop this stuff, it's just hard.
lazyasciiart 16 hours ago [-]
Maybe they weren't before they IPO'd.
swed420 1 days ago [-]
> Because the only metric that matters for social media is engagement

True, but what if a third party existed to measure and compare other metrics that users would actually care about across popular platforms?

emdash 1 days ago [-]
Obviously it's hard to prove such a thing but I've always wondered if the owners of Reddit actively support having these operations run on their site.

I've seen cases where the admins delete comments that talk about the issue

cogman10 1 days ago [-]
I think that reddit's recent change to allow hiding comment history is exactly to help support shilling.

It makes it hard to see what's a bot and what's a legitimate account.

trollbridge 15 hours ago [-]
Yep.
bsenftner 1 days ago [-]
Owners of Reddit also own these companies.
nerevarthelame 15 hours ago [-]
It's extremely unrealistic to sue someone for violating your Terms of Service. It's not impossible -- you'd need to sue them for a breach of contract and demonstrate clear financial damages --, but the primary solution is to just refuse to provide them service.

Like, Reddit may know that Bazzly is selling fake comments, which violates Reddit's ToS. How many comments can they prove are tied to Bazzly? How much does an astro-turfed comment financially harm Reddit, and can they convince a jury of that?

Instead, most companies will aggressively shut down the bot networks, if they can identify them, and hope that the astro-turfers focus on other platforms, and/or make it more financially challenging to do it successfully on theirs.

SoftTalker 12 hours ago [-]
If there's no payment ("consideration") there's generally no contract.
kube-system 1 days ago [-]
Because it would be a monumental waste of time and money. Even if you could track down the overseas operators doing this, there's not much damages you could sue for, and alternatives would just pop up in their place.
literalAardvark 1 days ago [-]
Overseas operators? Nonsense.

I know US people who do this for a living

cogman10 1 days ago [-]
Technically this is something the FTC could get involved in as it's illegal to advertise without making it clear you are.

A few years back a bunch of influencers were fined for doing just that.

kube-system 1 days ago [-]
Literally the example in the comment I replied to was an overseas operator. But my point is even if you did go after spam operators, alternatives will simply pop up in other jurisdictions, as has happened with literally every other form of spam.
tayo42 18 hours ago [-]
Humans get paid to make astroturfing comments on old Reddit accounts? And make enough for a living?Where do I sign up ?
literalAardvark 14 hours ago [-]
It's a padding.

Their main activities were click botting and general social media marketing (day job was in SMM analytics).

But if you're already there with the automation for thousands of accounts and the knowledge of what an account looks like why not also put some to ripen for 9 bucks a comment :)

Isamu 1 days ago [-]
What does it cost for Hacker News comments? Is there no YC startup for manipulating this discussion?
tripleee 18 hours ago [-]
A lot of these services are sold privately. I have no doubt it exists for HN
Promenade1676 18 hours ago [-]
When I did dev relations I just messaged people who had decent accounts and an email or other contact and offered them some freebies on our platform, which did lead to a decent number of them posting about it, like I solicited ~200 accounts and had ~10 comment or post about it in the next month. Maybe some kind of service where people could opt into offers?
ChrisRR 1 days ago [-]
I'm assuming it already falls under rules 2 and 5, content manipulation and deceptive interactions
add-sub-mul-div 1 days ago [-]
For the same reason Amazon doesn't solve fake reviews. Their business needs the content and they're confident that the people who haven't left for better options will remain undiscerning.
chanux 17 hours ago [-]
> For the same reason Amazon doesn't solve fake reviews.

Just like scam ads for Google and Facebook.

noncoml 1 days ago [-]
> left for better options

Please name one

Genuinely asking

SoftTalker 12 hours ago [-]
Literally any other seller.

I try to go to manufacturers own online store if they have one. Or a local retailer. Or a specialty online seller. Or Walmart but they have third party sellers too so you have to avoid those.

KingOfCoders 1 days ago [-]
In Germany e.g. Galaxus works fine for many things. Also eBay surprisingly works better for many things because it has more filters, e.g. if you want to buy wood or window shades etc.
zelphirkalt 1 days ago [-]
eBay has become a cesspool though, with their silly login requiring phone number and so on. I still remember I had a completely fine Kleinanzeigen account at the beginning of the Pandemic, because I wanted to offer math and computer stuff help for students and put an ad for that on kleinanzeigen. (Didn't ever get a request that was worth taking seriously.) Then at some point later, I suddenly was no longer allowed to log in, unless I disclose my phone number. What a shit. Since then that account sits stale or might already be deleted.
KingOfCoders 10 hours ago [-]
Kleinanzeigen != eBay
add-sub-mul-div 1 days ago [-]
Not sure which you're asking about but, for example, Best Buy price matches Amazon for items where they overlap. And then I can go get the product right away without waiting for shipping. Or paying for Prime. Or supporting Amazon.
1 days ago [-]
nomel 18 hours ago [-]
Feel free to share your detection method!
bediger4000 1 days ago [-]
Based on what happens everywhere, they're paying reddit for leniency. Pink contracts have been around since Uunet was offering them to Usenet spammers.
micromacrofoot 1 days ago [-]
Generally you can't stop them, they're shell companies run from countries that don't care. You spend a lot of time and effort trying to block one and they just spin up another, it's asymmetrical in that you expend more resources to stop it.

reddit wants engagement numbers to grow either way, so that disincentivizes it further

schnitzelstoat 4 hours ago [-]
It seems like the astroturfing accounts are managed (perhaps by humans, perhaps by advanced AI) for quite a while before being used. So they won't look like new or 'thin' accounts and will have reasonable looking posts across different subreddits.

We are in the age of the replicant now.

wxw 1 days ago [-]
IIRC the Reddit founders used bots for initial traffic to skip over the cold start problem. I feel like this bit of lore is actually pretty terrible but is treated as a nice anecdote because it worked.
hnedeotes 1 days ago [-]
I think due to the outsized power ads companies (and even those that aren't purely ads founded, like FB, but for which the model of profitability was always ads on the long-horizon) have over the current internet this won't ever go away, in fact it will only keep getting worse, hand in hand with the augmented agentic workflows.

An id-with-options-for-anonymity solution would go a long way but no one is remotely interested in that because it would just crater all these companies valuations if you figured out 60k subscribers were actually 45k bots, and 80% comments were automated agentic replies.

I had launched almost 10 years ago a campaign in indiegogo and immediately got spammed with people selling marketing campaigns, I launched a few days ago one in gamefound and the same happened. Without it, or you investing on your own marketing campaigns it's just impossible to get any traction of sorts, unless you have a network of contacts that themselves can reach organically other people, and the same for other things, like bootstrapping an online social platform. It's almost as if it's a "cost of doing business".

Most of these marketers themselves have automated funnels, now all using agents, there's a lot of tell-tales on the messages you receive and then on the follow ups too - sometimes to the point that the messages just miss completely things you made clear just on the previous message and just follow a funnel to get you through the door. At a certain threshold or when told explicitly sometimes a human goes into the loop, but 2 messages in it's like they reset back to factory defaults...

conorcleary 16 hours ago [-]
and then the Digg tidal wave
TheqO 10 hours ago [-]
RIP Aaron, the reddit co-founder who ended up killing himself.

Free Documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpvcc9C8SbM

TheqO 10 hours ago [-]
As others have said, reddit forums have unpaid mods. And these mods may have an agenda.

The sub reddit may have been created for a specific purpose and the narrative can be controlled. Post a popular opinion that is contrary to the agenda and you will be banned by the mods. Also bots/state employees that will downvote you with enough accounts that your comment will be buried in 20+ downvotes and never be shown.

You have to care about the subject enough to start your own sub reddit or forum and maintain it and nurture it, which mostly won't happen.

There was recent news that not just X but also Meta, TikTok and more are banning the new Elon documentary from posting adverts which shows how coordinated and controlled things are:

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/digital/elon-musk...

ohm 1 days ago [-]
Reddit added an option to hide your post history, making it harder to figure out if the account is a bot.
randycupertino 18 hours ago [-]
Artic Shift stills show reddit post and comment history even if it's hidden on reddit:

https://arctic-shift.photon-reddit.com/search

I'm sure reddit will kill it at some point like they did Reveddit and Unddit, but it works for now.

kevitivity 2 hours ago [-]
Reddit has a moderator problem.
yoggies_bro 1 days ago [-]
Why would I trust an article written in Claudish with a broken link to a github repo?
zulux 1 days ago [-]
Yes.

I do it locally to nudge political discourse. Doesn't take much to sway a lot of people.

I'm glad I agree with what I'm doing because its effectiveness is terrifying.

pinkmuffinere 18 hours ago [-]
You just sound like a bad person?
handoflixue 16 hours ago [-]
If trying to nudge public opinion makes you a bad person, aren't you guilty of the same with this comment?
AuthAuth 17 hours ago [-]
I'm almost certain a small group of uni aged kids are doing this to my local subreddit.
qwerpy 15 hours ago [-]
Same. I got banned from mine for basically having the opinion of the median inhabitant of my city (read: politically moderate, appreciates the police, etc) which wasn’t to the liking of the mods. I gave up on that site after that. Whatever LLM I happen to be using can wade through the sewage and fish out the occasional useful info for me.
bad_username 12 hours ago [-]
Actions like yours are why I left Reddit many years ago, and generally why we can't have nice things.
asdaqopqkq 10 hours ago [-]
This, it the main reason I don't post on reddit so much. Anyone outside the bubble will get their posts taken down.
consp 1 days ago [-]
Sounds interesting but I find it kind of annoying the github source either has been nuked or never existed in the first place.
culi 11 hours ago [-]
There is a massive marketplace for accounts used by actual humans who then sell their accounts. One tell I noticed about these accounts is they often frequent video game subreddits as they have a lower barrier to entry
HarHarVeryFunny 1 days ago [-]
A large portion of the "New LLM release" story comments here on HN also appear to be astroturfing ... would be interesting to see a correlation of comment sentiment to IP-derived geographic location!
4 hours ago [-]
janalsncm 16 hours ago [-]
This is why you need to write your own content.

> If the tail shows up in buying threads only because it posts a lot, random reassignment says it should write about 7.9% of the brand mentions there, and almost always between 6.3% and 10.1%. It wrote 11.3%.

Is it just me or is this just a block of painfully hard to parse text? This is core to the author’s analysis.

Rather than pasting the analysis from Claude, the author should just explain it themselves. Just the core of their analysis. It doesn’t have to be 2000 words. Put an AI;DR at the top and give us the core of your argument. I would take a paragraph from a human any day over an essay from Claude.

est 16 hours ago [-]
Ask HN: what would you do if you were operating reddit?

What are some good counter measure, besides ban hammer?

trollbridge 15 hours ago [-]
Behavioural analysis of how the user uses the site to identify real people.

Then, textual analysis to detect when they’re promoting something specific. This is not hard to detect across the set of all active posters.

1 days ago [-]
jokoon 7 hours ago [-]
reddit is being less and less trustworthy and interesting, the constant opinion bubbles make it impossible to have a thoughtful conversation anywhere.
gwbas1c 1 days ago [-]
> Unfortunately, advertisers are getting smarter and using bots...

I honestly thought this was a nag asking me to turn off my ad blocker!

beloch 8 hours ago [-]
If you're trying to sell knives, do you get more bang for your advertising dollar by paying some TikTok influencer to do knife-tricks with your knives, or by paying off the mods of a reddit sub that people already go to when doing research on what knives to buy? Reddit is, after all, the place people search when they don't trust the reviews on Amazon.

Reddit mods are not paid by reddit, but many of them wield considerable influence that has real economic value. There are reddit mods who are honest, but they're not likely to be in charge of a sub that can sell things or political views. Just as you should evaluate a newspaper for bias, you should evaluate reddit subs based on their potential for corruption.

Of course, there's another option now: Hire somebody to use AI spambots to drown reddit in a sea of slop singing the praises of whatever it is you're trying to sell.

ZiiS 16 hours ago [-]
Why are they calling its primary funtion a problem?
d1l 17 hours ago [-]
Post is slop but I was on a call this morning with our go-getter sales guy (he’s calling himself a gtm engineer now) where he talked about alternately buying Reddit comments and going and placing flyers on car windshields himself at offices of potential customers. Our CEO was enthusiastic.
diogenescynic 12 hours ago [-]
It absolutely does. I used to be a hardcore reddit user but once you start frequenting a few subreddits closely and you start to notice that a few mods basically control the entire platform and that those same mods usually have alt accounts that they allow to dominate the subreddits they control. I have a feeling most of the mods are taking deals to pay for favorable coverage etc. I was once banned for saying I didn't like a Marvel movie in /r/movies. THEN any of the truly hot button political issues like GMOs, glyphosate, COVID, Israel/Gaza... you'd see these 24/7 permanently online users replying to literally hundreds of comments per day with massive detailed rebuttals. You start to see how certain narratives are maintained and protected and essentially operationalized into 24/7 content factories. Now, that I see that and am aware it's hard for me to enjoy Reddit. Now I just see it as a massive psyop.
lurk2 10 hours ago [-]
Israel is the greatest indication that the site isn’t astroturfed, though; even on /r/worldnews, Israelis can rarely give a positive spin on anything related to the conflict.
etcetcetcetceta 8 hours ago [-]
does it matter?

The quality is so low, of submission, discourse, and people.

I can take only a few minutes of scrolling through naively instructive subcomments "fun fact, water is actually wet", or needless authority seeking "as an AuDHD can confirm", the prepending of "super" to everything "this is super not good", it's like reading pure cliche, adding bots in can only improve it, ideally by precipitating it's demise.

"let's call it...accelerationism"

jrootabega 3 hours ago [-]
I mean like you could just not go there? yikes, high key (ish) that's super gross my guy
etcetcetcetceta 3 hours ago [-]
exactly like this yes.
mrweasel 1 days ago [-]
Ads, scams, rage bait, trolls... The internet is pretty broken for almost all sites that pretends to carry conversations between actual people.

I don't understand why so many people and companies feel the need to just spam reviews, SEO and questionable ads. It's like almost no one has the idea that may we start with a good product, then we'll tell people about it. It's always a question of what you can have produced cheaply in China and how do we then trick people into buying it.

As it stand you can pretty much assume that if it's advertised, or is promoted on social media, it's going to be a shit product.

To some extend I'd exclude certain types of YouTube reviews, because they frequently aren't paid by the manufacturer and making a video with real people and real data is to expensive to waste on scams.

cucumber3732842 1 days ago [-]
>s between actual people.

Only for arbitrary people. Gate kept or low member count communities that exist to facilitate a discussion between appliance repair men, literature enthusiasts, fly tying hobbyists or owners of a particular model of vehicle are largely alive and well (unfortunately a lot of them moved from forums to facebook, but still.

SoftTalker 12 hours ago [-]
I'm on several email lists that serve communities like this. Email lists are unreasonably good for this sort of thing and it's too bad they fell out of favor.
add-sub-mul-div 1 days ago [-]
That this was posted by someone who's only here to post his own sites and those sites have never been submitted by another person is like performance art.
williamcotton 18 hours ago [-]
No one reads my blog, should I never post my own articles?
jerry80 23 hours ago [-]
And (at least some parts of) the article is clearly written by AI.
nullbio 4 hours ago [-]
It does, big time. Everything on Reddit is gamed and manipulated to spin a narrative. It's where certain demographics go to spin propaganda.
someonebaggy 17 hours ago [-]
Don't you just have to use Reddit to learn the answer is yes?
shevy-java 9 hours ago [-]
Reddit has a problem with mod-censorship.

However had, recently they also ruined old.reddit.com. I always said that when they take down old.reddit.com (they require a log in, which makes no sense from a user's perspective) I would be gone. Turns out I retired before that due to mods censoring me willy-nilly style. It's interesting how the internet shifted towards more and more censorship. Can we not come up with an internet without censorship? I am not even against 0% censorship, e. g. I am fine if bots are not allowed to pester real humans, but specifically a lot of censorship that was and is going on on reddit, has to do with mods arbitrarily enforcing "rules". I know this is the case because I wrote just about the very same content and style on ALL subreddits - on some I ended up being censored, on others not. So that's individual mods abusing their anti-social powers.

On Hackernews this is not as bad, but the UI is annoying, especially the "you post too much". Well, I don't - but Hackernews simply has a rate limit that makes no sense. At the least the censorship on Hackernews is nowhere near close to the reddit censorship.

bix6 1 days ago [-]
> Adding "reddit" to a knife search still gets you humans, mostly. For a couple of brands, a quarter to a third of the buying advice comes from accounts that mostly recommend that brand. Whether those are fans or paid, I do not know, and after reading their histories I lean toward fans and hold the lean loosely.

Very long write up to unconfidently say I don’t know.

stevekemp 1 days ago [-]
For a while people were suggesting that adding "reddit" to queries for shopping advice was a real way to get uncensored/genuine commentary and reviews.

Even the first time I saw the advice I was skeptical, reddit is rife with bots, and fake comments/posts. It's been well-known for almost a decade at this point that there are multiple individuals moderating many communities there, and that kinda power is rife for abuse.

I've been a sporadic reddit reader/poster for a few years, but this past month I've had enough and deleted my account. The main draw was niche-topics, but they've been overrun with AI slop, and even the local communities have become echo-chambers rather than posts of new bands, events, etc. The local newspaper can tell me about those already.

thimabi 1 days ago [-]
Perhaps we can envision a future in which we analyze Reddit data not according to all the positive things people say about a product, but according to the negative things being said.

Shilling can’t prevent dissatisfied customers from voicing their opinions in a properly moderated subreddit, and astroturfing to spread misinformation about a competitor makes companies much more vulnerable to litigation.

edawg88 14 hours ago [-]
What about non-customers who post negative things?
Kuyawa 13 hours ago [-]
All public forums have an astroturfing problem including this one

Google, Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, etc they all have hundreds of thousands employees and even if they are not explicitly paid to astroturf, they try to be subconsciously loyal to their employer, downvoting everything that goes against their subtle wiring, and happily upvoting every new product or feature launched by their org

That's just human nature, proven in 3, 2, 1...

Varelion 7 hours ago [-]
Remember that Ghislaine Maxwell was a moderator one the largest news subreddit.
sliqqq 9 hours ago [-]
Yes, yes, yes! I'm so happy to see this trending on Hackernews! Reddit has been an echochamber for simple, naive opinions, and people who avoid going deep into the problems of the world. Radical censorship by the mob.

In my experience, literally every thread or comment that even just questions the "big narrative", the opinion of the masses, is downvoted, banned or even deleted by mods or the mob.

Example: Germany is breaking apart politically due to the uncontrolled mass immigration topic, resulting in landslide wins of a far-right political party. I want to hear opinions of the voters, the protesters, the undecided, of everybody regadless of their position, but somehow, you will not find their voices on reddit. Like they dont exist.

jrflowers 10 hours ago [-]
> the account-history comparison cannot, because it rests on usernames I will not publish.

Hell yeah I love this “I will never prove that I didn’t make this up or trust random output because it was on the computer screen, because of my principles”

kogasa240p 11 hours ago [-]
This has been known for years, but it's good to see that more people are picking up to the fact.
RickJWagner 1 days ago [-]
Per Reddit itself and Google, astroturfing is especially bad in political subreddits. Attempting to shape public perception is a big business.
silisili 18 hours ago [-]
I'd say it failed in that it became an echo chamber - there isn't real public to shape. It would have probably been more effective if done a bit more subtly, which makes it scary to realize that 'effective' propaganda looks like open discourse to the average user.
randycupertino 18 hours ago [-]
Almost a bigger threat than astroturfing is biased parties, be it brands or brand managers, taking over as moderators to sway content and suppress content they don't like. Happened in a bunch of artist and influencer subs.
2PqboPPmKegvanx 1 days ago [-]
anyone who ever says no to this hasn't ever posted on reddit.
slowhadoken 12 hours ago [-]
Social media that allows users to vote on reality is astroturfed by design.
nizarmah 1 days ago [-]
All this time I've been oblivious to this. To this day I still write site:reddit.com in my searches to get information from people. SMH.
mrtesthah 15 hours ago [-]
The AI writing makes this unreadable.
tonymet 16 hours ago [-]
The sooner you realize the internet is dead (and has been), the less anxiety you'll have.
johnsmith1840 17 hours ago [-]
That's just ad products. I am convinced brands do this one their own subreddits all the time.

Saying postive or neutral statements, say a negative thing, not downvoted but zeroed.

Dead internet is absolutely true

Lerc 18 hours ago [-]
Is product astroturfing illegal in any jurisdictions? I can't see a particularly compelling reason for allowing advice from people deliberately concealing a financial incentive.
embedding-shape 17 hours ago [-]
> The practical check is the one the data endorses: when a knife recommendation comes from an account you do not recognize, click through and see whether it has ever named a different brand.

This isn't even most of the times possible, since both humans and bot alike on Reddit now hides their comment/submission history, so it just shows a blank page.

No, I think it's best to just default to assuming everyone is a bot, so to say, and read everything critically regardless of what the source may be.

RunSet 18 hours ago [-]
https://www.theverge.com/tech/975398/reddit-ai-rules-hub-mod...

I was banned by their new AI moderation system. Then I appealed it and got a message saying "Our slop banned you by mistake." (paraphrased)

Then I was banned again by their new AI moderation system.

Then I deleted my post history using Power Delete Suite and stopped using reddit.

https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite

Let their bots moderate bots.

18 hours ago [-]
fg137 5 hours ago [-]
If the author had put a TL;DR at the beginning of the article I wouldn't have had to scroll all the way to the end to find the conclusion, because the slop is otherwise unreadable.

In academic journals, we call that "abstract".

jdw64 1 days ago [-]
Isn't there? Especially when crypto was booming, that kind of opinion manipulation definitely existed to deceive people. I've actually seen it in freelance requests before too, and most of the time they run it through phone farms.

I've also heard it happens in some games as well, but either way, the one I can say for certain is crypto.

gwbas1c 1 days ago [-]
Am I the only person who thinks many of the various "I don't touch code anymore" comments here come from bots?
ovulator 1 days ago [-]
I think a lot of them came from people who never touched code in the first place.
linkregister 18 hours ago [-]
There are probably others who think those comments come from bots.

Many long-tenured blog authors claim they don't touch code anymore as well. I think that lends credibility to the veracity of the claim, as shocking as it is to you as an individual.

nikanj 1 days ago [-]
Absolutely. For example, the blatant ads for Stake https://www.reddit.com/r/self/comments/1s3yscz/how_reddit_us...
lurk2 11 hours ago [-]
> And here's something I found extremely interesting. On the original post, a commentor noticed a strange detail. All of these posts use either the Cyrillic letter "a'' or ''e'' in the word Stake. So aesthetically it looks the same as a normal A or E figure, except its technically not recognized as the normal letter A or E.

> Why do this? Well, it's likely this is done as a means of circumnavigating some subreddits filters to ban mentioning of gambling. The word Stake has likely been filtered out of some subs or mentions of gambling outright banned, and this is a way around it. I noticed too when you utilize Ctrl + F, you cannot find the word "Stake" when searching for it on these posts, due to how these figures are considered different.

I saw the comment you linked a while ago and looked for some of the phrases on Google and turned up five or six hits before getting bored; there were a lot more in the search results that I never checked. This was also around the time that Kick was showing up everywhere because they had been paying for their clips to appear on other sites.

0xy 1 days ago [-]
Yes, yes it does. There's astroturfing of every variety: political, brands, image rehab, you name it.

Just look at how often Bill Gates gets glazing articles posted which receive suspicious rankings. None of the comments mention the Epstein-sized elephants in the room.

Politics is even worse, and it's useless as a platform for taking political temperature. Numerous companies openly admit to this activity and Reddit has never commented on this practice.

rafram 1 days ago [-]
reddit is an echo chamber when it comes to most topics, and politics are probably the worst of all. Back in the Gamergate days it was all MRA types (throwback!); in 2016 it became 50% Bernie and 50% Trump; these days it's mostly mainstream liberal. I assume the actual political makeup of the user base hasn't changed that much in that time, but people who obsessively refresh and upvote/downvote posts based on their politics have an outsize impact on what comes to the top. I'm sure there's some impact from automated astroturfing, but humans drive it.

No serious person would ever suggest using it to take the "political temperature" of society at large. It's about as useful as Nextdoor for that.

lurk2 10 hours ago [-]
> Back in the Gamergate days it was all MRA types (throwback!)

MRAs were a minority of a minority of users; even when the site was mostly white and Asian men talking about computer science, it was overwhelmingly liberal. There are far more who fit into the MRA category now but those have come about due to the cultural trend towards sexual doomerism among Gen Z men, who inherited it from millennial incels (most of whom fled the site around the time of Ellen Pao’s tenure). MRAs were mostly Gen X and elder millennials.

> I assume the actual political makeup of the user base hasn't changed that much in that time

Why? The site used to have a minority of right-leaning users (/r/conservative, /r/anarcho_capitalism, /r/DebateFascism, /r/TheDonald, /r/altright, /r/darkenlightenment, /r/politicalcompassmemes, etc.). All of these communities are completely marginal now; half of them were outright banned from the site. Reddit doesn’t have a positive reputation among people who are even moderately conservative because of how heavy-handed the moderation is. It has always had this reputation, but there was a brief time from around 2014 to around 2017 when conservatives could actually engage with parts of it in a way that they just don’t bother to do anymore.

98753579909754 10 hours ago [-]
Mainstream liberals as in terrorists cheering for the murderers of Brian Thompspn and Charlie Kirk and pining for the Boston bombers.
ChrisRR 1 days ago [-]
Damn I haven't seen a Bill Gates conspiracy theory in a long time. What a throwback
monksy 18 hours ago [-]
From my experience, they have been astroturfed quite a lot, its' been that way for a while.

During the Laquan McDonald innocent and trial there were tons of accounts from the_donald, and not-connected to that were pretending to be experts and live in chicago (despite not having history on the sub). In the threads these accounts weren't positively contributing to the conversation, they were spewing:

1. Direct racial slurs 2. Political proganda criticising leadership they didn't like (not having direct experience and not critiqing direct political actions that lead to the event). I.e. "Chicago is a warzone"/etc. 3. Maliciously bad faith arguements. (Non-regulars steering up arguments to push talking points.. these weren't well intention-ed factual/communicative debates)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Laquan_McDonald

Since then: There have been heavy agenda pushing on subs. For example scooters and bikes, after the introduction of rentable ebikes and scooters.. there was heavy votes and arguements over people who criticized the business and users behavior. (When the scooters were added to the city, there were lots of posts about destroying them.. now there are not recognizable accounts arguing and attacking you if you comment on this.. a comment about defending yourself against someone riding aggressively near you gets you site wide banned). Note: the attacks in support for scooters aren't consistent.. sometimes you get breakthroughs talking about the negative impact.

On r/privacy, there are groups of people that grief others about "well you can't do anything about this". I'm not talking about people expressing how they feel, I'm talking about direct denialism and griefing in a sub that is expressly meant to be pro-privacy.

Additionally, the DNC did this on r/wisconsin in 2024. They even used social manipulation tactics with calls to actions that "we must do something." There was documentation about this was coordinated efforts.

This has been documented on accounts that are necro-ing old posts for product recommendations as well.

Theres a lot that is claimed on the Ellen Pao == hitler drama actually being a Spez lead campaign in a business lead fight. (Turns out it was spez that wanted to roll out a lot of the restrictive features and sub removals, and Pao was more of a "let's be less resirictive and socially moderated" )

https://reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/2zcbyq/what_is_go...

1 days ago [-]
alex1138 14 hours ago [-]
I'm being snarky about this, but reddit (among other things. I don't really know what ails them) has a spez problem

It's spez that caused mods to have shit mod tools, the war with API against its users, who seems purely interested in the profit motive, training LLMs on reddit data

And yes, reddit has a censorship problem. Always somewhat of an issue with subreddits as a concept - I'll just get 5 of my friends to ideologically align against you and ban your posts - but even the site itself seems to be this. "The most real place on the internet"?! Fucking please.

WorseIsBetter 8 hours ago [-]
[flagged]
mabini 1 days ago [-]
[dead]
asg172 1 days ago [-]
A truly load-bearing article that reassures us that Reddit is not astroturfed.

Of course, AI coding agents, which the author works on, would also never be astroturfed on Reddit!

You know, astroturfing on Reddit also comes from long time accounts with moderator support.

oceansky 1 days ago [-]
I don't think the article is reassuring it is not astroturfed? He studied only a small case, for a brand on the smaller side, and found significant amount of bots.

If you see a single sheep on an island, it is safe to assume there is more than one sheep living on the island.

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